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sanjay
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bukkakeboy View Post
Where would you draw the line, how "high" do you think its fair to go (with regards to the 2nd amendment). Does it cover grenade launchers? Mortars? Bazookas? Heavy Machine guns? (tanks/artillery? )

I'm just wondering which weapons are or you think should be off limits to you.


The Second Amendment was designed to give the people the right and the ability to overthrow a corrupt government and defend liberty in the process. This means we are supposed to have the best money we buy.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:08 AM sanjay is offline  
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dagamore
 
I have no problems with any restrictions as long as the military/LEO/Government also follows the same restrictions.

sadly they dont, and we the people, are punished for daring to demand the rights we are protected, not given, by the Bill of Rights.
Old 04-03-2009, 09:20 AM dagamore is offline  
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mofugger
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This almost seems like a troll
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:11 AM mofugger is offline  
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#18  

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It's a valid question, and I hear it asked a lot. I would personally draw the line at anything that isn't an infantry-level firearm. Small arms, in other words.

Artillery, JDAMs, nukes, tanks, and AIDS-spreading cluster bombs don't really fit the bill.
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Old 04-03-2009, 11:57 AM Sarcasmo is offline  
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#19  

dagamore
 
Oddley enough what started the american revolution was the british trying to take privately owned artillery pieces in New York City. Not the only thing but one of the major starting factors was that attack.
Old 04-03-2009, 12:12 PM dagamore is offline  
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monkey-boy
 
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if a person mentally stable, IMO the sky should be the limit.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:17 PM monkey-boy is offline  
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#21  

monkey-boy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay View Post
The Second Amendment was designed to give the people the right and the ability to overthrow a corrupt government and defend liberty in the process. This means we are supposed to have the best money we buy.

this sums up my feelings pretty well.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:19 PM monkey-boy is offline  
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#22  

monkey-boy
 
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Originally Posted by Plazmattack View Post
On the flip side of that token, when has a beanie baby been considered lethal?

(sorry for playing devil's advocate)


you would be surprised at the sheer number of odd harmless objects that will make you dead if put your mind to it.

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Old 04-03-2009, 02:27 PM monkey-boy is offline  
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#23  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bukkakeboy View Post
Yes I'm aware that there are certain limitations, but why do you think there are, and do you think its fine or do you hate it that you can't buy X?

And im talking about weapons here, a tank that can't shoot doesn't really count.

You can buy functional tanks, artillery, RPGs, etc.

Just have to pay to play.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:59 PM BPJ is offline  
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Bukkakeboy
 
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Originally Posted by Caelum View Post

Its something that seems hard to legislate though. A lot of the shit on the new weapons are super secret high tech bad ass shit. Do we really want Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to send over a guy with a few billion to reverse engineer every piece of our hardware? FUCK NO. But then even that statement goes against Ben Franklin "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

So, its a conundrum. In theory it should be as limitless as our own military. In practice, it will never be IMO

Well that reasoning can be taken other ways as well. People hell bent on fucking over the government etc etc. If there are no restrictions, all you need is money.

V.unlikely scenario, buy a nuke. Set it off somewhere
unlikely scenario, buy a couple of tanks or some artillery. Blast the shit out of the white house or something.

In the end it seems like two extremes, you can't have both ("free" access to all weaponry AND safety)
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Old 04-04-2009, 02:55 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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#25  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey-boy View Post
if a person mentally stable, IMO the sky should be the limit.

and how do you establish this?
(and why don't you already when considering CCW permits and assault-weapons)


Also, I don't believe the first step of any totalitarian government has been to take away the populaces gun rights (as someone alluded to earlier). I would very much like to see examples listed where this has happened, and the army hasn't just put a big nocare on that and raped places/villages/people with superior firepower.

I don't honestly know what the limit is in the U.S, but I'm pretty sure that IF the govment really turns on its people, the people are fucked no matter which weapons they can arm themselves with (short of nukes/bio/chem). I mean at some point I'm sure 98% of you here have pointed out how awesome the U.S military is. The amount of firepower a civilian populace can procure will in no way/shape or form be enough to overthrow a military like that gone rogue.

Oh sure there will be militias and guerilla warfare, but there is an easy way to put a pretty effective stop to that (unless said militia is insane).

(And yes, I know I ain't considering everything here and I am deliberately just presenting one side of it because I'm not sure it gets brought up enough.)

And no, I know you are itching in your ban/edit finger mof, but I'm not trolling. I am honestly curious about the line of thinking surrounding this problem.
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:09 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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#26  

Social Misfit
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As has been stated before, the purpose of the second ammendment was to guarantee that a civilian militia could, if needed, legally own the hardware required to destabilize and overthrow a corrupt government, if one ever happened to rise to power.

Our govenment has at it's disposal everything from single shot M82 sniper rifles to 10 ton Nuclear missles, and every imaginable thing in between. Now, i'm not saying that we should be able to waltz down to the gun show and pick up a case of nuclear warheads, but I certainly don't see a problem with being able to pick up an automatic rifle or two. And if that makes me a fucking gun nut, then so be it...I'd rather be an armed idiot than a defenseless sheep.
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:42 AM Social Misfit is offline  
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#27  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
In theory, due to the nature of our military anyone to stand against it would need to be pretty equally armed. So there should be NO limits on it. If the military was using musket loaders, so can I. But now theyre using abrams and apaches and f22's, in theory and by definition of the amendment IMO i should be allowed to buy those as well.

But if you were a mean and corrupt government with plans of oppressing peoples free opinion, would you let them do that or add more and more restrictions?
I dont think you would. I think you would add more and more restrictions or take away the right all together. First step in oppressing a people: Take away their ability to defend themselves from the oppressors

Its something that seems hard to legislate though. A lot of the shit on the new weapons are super secret high tech bad ass shit. Do we really want Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to send over a guy with a few billion to reverse engineer every piece of our hardware? FUCK NO. But then even that statement goes against Ben Franklin "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

So, its a conundrum. In theory it should be as limitless as our own military. In practice, it will never be IMO
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:53 AM ?psalus is offline  
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#28  

monkey-boy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bukkakeboy View Post
and how do you establish this?
(and why don't you already when considering CCW permits and assault-weapons)

who says we dont?

Also, I don't believe the first step of any totalitarian government has been to take away the populaces gun rights (as someone alluded to earlier). I would very much like to see examples listed where this has happened, and the army hasn't just put a big nocare on that and raped places/villages/people with superior firepower.


A Gun Control Law Passed by the German Government One Day After Kristallnacht

1573
Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons

11 November 1938

With a basis in §31 of the Weapons Law of 18 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p.265), Article III of the Law on the Reunification of Austria with Germany of 13 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 237), and §9 of the Führer and Chancellor's decree on the administration of the Sudeten-German districts of 1 October 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p 1331) are the following ordered:
§1
Jews (§5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 1333) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.

§2
Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.

§3
The Minister of the Interior may make exceptions to the Prohibition in §1 for Jews who are foreign nationals. He can entrust other authorities with this power.

§4
Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions of §1 will be punished with imprisonment and a fine. In especially severe cases of deliberate violations, the punishment is imprisonment in a penitentiary for up to five years.

§5
For the implementation of this regulation, the Minister of the Interior waives the necessary legal and administrative provisions.

§6
This regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.

Berlin, 11 November 1938
Minister of the Interior
Frick


china and the soviet union also have similar restrictions during that era

just some quick digging i did
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Last edited by monkey-boy; 04-04-2009 at 06:59 AM..
Old 04-04-2009, 06:52 AM monkey-boy is offline  
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#29  

Bukkakeboy
 
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just some quick digging i did

good digging, point taken. But please don't come here trying to say you test for sanity to buy fullautos or to get a ccw permit.
Thats not what i've heard/seen at least.
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Old 04-04-2009, 07:19 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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