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flshdncr
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relationship falling apart (not mine), post up some responses.

Cliff's at the FRONT? That's INSANE:
1. Wall of Text
2. Stuff about two other peoples problems.
3. Why does OP give a shit and why did he type it all out?
4. ...
5. Error 404 Profit not found.

been together 3.5 years. Living together for about a year and a half. Past 3-6 months have been downhill.

She's upset because he's not moving anywhere. In the time they've been together he's still working for the $10/hour job he started with. He's barely able to pay rent, and has had to skip a few times. She's suggested that he move back home with his parents where he can live rent-free, and use that extra cash to get back into college.

As their mutual friend I've provided each with a person to listen to the things they can't communicate about directly. They definitely love each other, but she's at the point where she's finding faults in his ways. One being that she doesn't feel challenged socially or intellectually. He's got puppy-dog syndrome, in that he knows that she makes better decisions than he does, and therefore anything she says is likely the better answer. She's come to find that annoying. She's also annoyed that he isn't happy with his job or where he's at finacially in his life. He's approaching 30 and isn't financially independent.

He's upset that she's slowly slipping away. He's aware that the reason for this is because he hasn't shown motivation to progress with his life. He believes that as long as he loves her fully, there shouldn't be any problems.

He spent about a week out of town, which allowed me and her to really talk about what she's thinking. She's at a point in her life that she's saved up enough cash to live off of for about 6 months. 3 of those months she plans on spending out of the country visiting relatives. This will be happening in late August. After our long talks, she's pretty much reached the point of saying she's going to break up with him. I don't want to see this happen since I know and they know they both love each other.

As the guy's friend, I've been telling him to get his shit together. Most recently I've told him that he's at the point where he's risking his relationship if it's not already gone. I suggested that he probably has until Aug to show some sort of progress, and upon her return have some sort of life-changing goals in the works.

As the girl's friend, I've only listened to what she had to say, and attempted to convince her to talk herself into giving him a chance. Unfortunately we're like brother/sister and she pretty much called me out on this mind game.

At this point i've decided to just listen. I've told both of them that as a single guy with a couple of ended long-term relationships under my belt, i'm probably the last person to take any advice from, but they continue to come to me.

My question then is what should I be doing? Should I stop listening completely? Should I point them towards therapy? Should I go to therapy for getting this involved? Does their relationship have a chance of working out? Are there any definate answers to any of these questions?

BC, let me know what you think. You don't even need to answer one of my questions, I'm already curious what others opinions are on the whole subject. If details are missing let me know and I'll add them as best as I can.

Oh, and to give a good reason as to WHY i'm involved, I met these two people separately, and after getting to know both of them, suggested that they meet because I had a feeling they would fall instantly in love. Hot damn I was right, I didn't see either of them for weeks later. We regularly do things just the 3 of us (sometimes 4 if I have a GF). Hell I even have only 3 Wii controllers. They've both said to me that I'm the best friend they each have. The more I look at it the more it seems like the Light version of Friends (that's a pretty lame thing to be, huh?)
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:20 AM flshdncr is offline  
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Stanch
 
"Financial independence" is something I've noticed my gay friends not obsessing over much in prospective partners, for whatever reason. Well, I have an inkling.

It's a breeder's obsession.

When a relationship consists of a natural-born breeder and someone who doesn't want kids, there will always be conflict of one kind or another, so it might as well be of the one obvious kind.

Women breeders like things that are obvious, which is why I would laugh in my daughter's face if she turned out straight. Best not to risk that much hilarity.

What I'm getting at, in my weird way, is that the guy in that relationship may not want kids in his life EVER. I feel qualified, at 38, to say it must be hard to accept.

If the guy has nothing of the patient teacher about him, he should think about what he wants and start hitting up childfree dating services. Breeders don't want to believe we exist. I have been extraordinarily lucky.

Expect extravagant denial. It's a loaded subject, "overdetermined" even.

Last edited by Stanch; 07-23-2009 at 06:16 AM..
Old 07-23-2009, 06:11 AM Stanch is offline  
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I feel like the above post is in the wrong thread.

OP, I think you've got to back off at this point. You've helped/meddled enough, and although you may not want to see your friends' relationship fall apart, it's not your responsibility to keep it going.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:53 PM fiestafish is offline  
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flshdncr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiestafish View Post
I feel like the above post is in the wrong thread.

OP, I think you've got to back off at this point. You've helped/meddled enough, and although you may not want to see your friends' relationship fall apart, it's not your responsibility to keep it going.

Agreed, every time they come to me I feel like I'm "Meddling". I'm out.
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:24 PM flshdncr is offline  
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I can understand your concern and hope that they can find a way to work it out, but other than continuing to be a friend and listening when asked there isn't anything for you to do here.

and my strong opinion has always been that "love" is not enough to make a partnership work. He's wrong to think that as long as he loves her entirely he's not obligated to stand on his own feet financially (I think this goes both ways in a relationship unless there has been a specific arrangement for one partner to take care of domestic duties while the other takes care of finances). You can't change her mind if she's already determined that she's unhappy in the relationship and doesn't feel it has a future. I've been in that situation where there was NO loss of love, just no future prospects as partners. It was a very painful breakup to initiate but it was the right thing in the long run for both of us.

My best friend recently broke up with her boyfriend for a similar reason as your friend. She found that his lack of motivation to improve himself made her lose respect and attraction to him. She was beginning to really resent him, but was torn because he was a really nice guy and generally treated her well but as she said "he's a loser". btw, she's highly successful financially with lots of future opportunities and doesn't want kids so it's not a breeder mentality.
Old 07-23-2009, 11:51 PM Sf_J is offline  
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just listen to them if they rant on. otherwise stay out of it or none of you will remain friends
Old 07-24-2009, 12:18 AM OlderBoy is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanch View Post
"Financial independence" is something I've noticed my gay friends not obsessing over much in prospective partners, for whatever reason. Well, I have an inkling.

It's a breeder's obsession.

When a relationship consists of a natural-born breeder and someone who doesn't want kids, there will always be conflict of one kind or another, so it might as well be of the one obvious kind.

Women breeders like things that are obvious, which is why I would laugh in my daughter's face if she turned out straight. Best not to risk that much hilarity.

What I'm getting at, in my weird way, is that the guy in that relationship may not want kids in his life EVER. I feel qualified, at 38, to say it must be hard to accept.

If the guy has nothing of the patient teacher about him, he should think about what he wants and start hitting up childfree dating services. Breeders don't want to believe we exist. I have been extraordinarily lucky.

Expect extravagant denial. It's a loaded subject, "overdetermined" even.

Wanting to be with a partner who is ambitious and can accomplish things in his life at age 30 without relying on mommy and daddy has nothing to do with wanting children.

If I were in the situation, I'd honestly be out of the relationship long ago, and the fact that she's stuck around probably means that she really loves him. Honestly, there's nothing you can do that you haven't already done. They both need to come to a decision that works for them both, whether they can reach a compromise or break up. Why doesn't he want to do something about his life? Seems like there might be more issues than the ones you perceive.
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Old 07-24-2009, 01:13 AM sabrina is offline  
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flshdncr
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Seems like there might be more issues than the ones you perceive.

Me and her think there may be an undiagnosed anxiety issue.

I really do appreciate the responses.
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:50 AM flshdncr is offline  
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flshdncr
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just listen to them if they rant on. otherwise stay out of it or none of you will remain friends

nah, losing either's friendship isn't going to happen. Much too deep of a bond developed with both before they got together.

The way you said I should listen to them while they rant on brought up a good point. There's no such thing as a passive listener. Even while listening to someone you provide feedback, whether it be from subtle body gestures to remarks on what they are saying. It's impossible to not provide bias.

To provide some additional play-by-play action, the girl emailed me this afternoon. She's upset with herself because she pretty much poured all of her thoughts out on him, unrestrained. Although harsh, it got the job done. It sounds like they'll be taking their relationship down a notch.
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Old 07-24-2009, 06:08 AM flshdncr is offline  
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Stanch
 
I need to apologize for some humorless drunkposting based on a pet cause; sorry. The puppy-dog syndrome is intimately familiar to me, and someone like that is unlikely to lay down the law unless thoroughly provoked.

Lifelong shitty pay is certainly exhausting for everyone involved; if more school can lead to a real career without the promise of promotions (and the threat of none) that might be a great plan.

In other words, a guy might enjoy getting out of the ratrace and making decent money at the same time. Medical specialties are good for this; generally you won't be promoted on the basis of job performance, and once you're hired there is little stigma attached to past earning capacity.
Old 07-24-2009, 06:38 AM Stanch is offline  
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I have been in a similar - though not same - instance. I have a couple of friends I am literally best friends with (the both of them) but they continually have fights and bouts about mundane shit.

They have been dating for a looooooooooong time, and I would be willing to bet the estate that they will eventually be married.

Why am I telling you this? Because the fact exists that there are relationships that will flourish, that will sputter without a purpose, that will blossom and die, and that are doomed from the start. As an outside friend talking with each of them - you have the (albeit conditionally) objective knowledge of how they are doing relationally to each other.

This means that you, possibly more than them, know how it is going to end. I am telling you this because I am assuming you are neither [too] insane nor crazy, and therefor can see the end. Relationships are ultimately decided by the two involved, but can be foreseen by everyone else.

There are relationships you want to see work, and there are those you wish that would work. Either way, when you contemplate upon it you will realize just what they are: ones that WILL work, and ones that you WISH would work.
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Old 07-24-2009, 06:50 AM AncientMarinade is offline  
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