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RedEyes
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Who here knows door knob hardware installation issues?

Kind of longish problem here.

Staying at a friend’s place. Locked myself out of the place because it has one of those locks behind you kind of doors. It was the middle of the night and I didn’t have my phone, car keys, etc, there wasn’t another way in, and I was in my pajamas. (Got locked out of the house, but still in the garage, which has an en that is keyed alike to the door between the garage and the house.)

So did that thing where you just keep twisting the lever until it pops open, which it did. (Note to self… locks aren’t as secure as I would think.)

Only problem is, now the doorknob levers are all jacked up, one points to 1 o’clock and the other points to 5 o’clock.

This is that knob, and the instructions PDF is on there too.
http://consumer.schlage.com/Products...51%20FLA%20716

So I disassemble the lock on the inside, and the latch chamber is jacked up but both handles on either side go back together fine. They actuate each other fine.

This piece from the cylinder assembly



was bent so far, it wouldn’t hook the hammer piece to retract it when you open the door. Tried bending it back in place, and it might work, but I’m not sure. Meanwhile I borrowed the part from an interior closet knob.

So I got it all put back together except this piece




fell out of the brass cylinder that holds the latch hammer and spring, and I can’t figure out how it went in there in the first place. Can I do without it?

So the knob is back where it belongs, but it seems like I have a new problem. I think this was the wrong kind of knob to be installed on the door, because the end of the latch doesn’t extend all the way to the interior part of the cutout, and it doesn’t seem to be extendable/adjustable like other ones I have installed other places.

So instead of the hole cut out in the door looking like this with the latch in it:


Which I am used to seeing, It looks like this:


And the latch sort of floats in the cutout… which I think leads to an existing issue that wasn’t ever a thing until I exacerbated it now, which is I think it might be that it is reaming out the hole that the latch hammer extends through. But looking at the instructions I found online, that’s how the lock is supposed to be… so maybe it’s a design flaw.

So I put it all back together and it seems to work, except for sometimes the hammer seems to be catching on that little rim piece you place around the cylinder when you tamp it into place.




When you hold the rim down with your fingers and work the knobs, it seems to work. Without catching, but once you close the door it’s loose ish again.

There doesn’t seem to be a latch adapter / collar or a face plate, although at one time the door evidently had one.



*note hole was beat to shit before I got here.

It seems like the whole door lever assembly has too much play in the door cutout and the chamber cylinder has too much wiggle in the shaft it comes out the door into the frame. It's sort of working for now... it just seems a little off, and that latch catches once in a while.

Is shifting in the whole causing pressure on the cylinder hammer causing it to bump into the rim thing?

Is there a non-descript way to add girth to the cylinder around the under lip of the rim? Should I put something around the cylinder in the hole, then replace the rim piece with a face plate?

Ideally I’d like the cleanest solution, and the less noticeable that anything was changed, the better, because they’re letting us stay in a really nice place for free.. so if I don’t have to tell them, so much the better. Any thoughts?
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:02 PM RedEyes is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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this is like a domonpost. I like.

Long story short, that was always the wrong assembly for an interior exterior door. You busted it by doing the old put massive pressure on the handle thing (good that you know that by the way), but it was nothing you did thats causing it to be sloppy now.
Old 12-16-2010, 05:13 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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RedEyes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever Domon View Post
this is like a domonpost. I like.

Long story short, that was always the wrong assembly for an interior exterior door. You busted it by doing the old put massive pressure on the handle thing (good that you know that by the way), but it was nothing you did thats causing it to be sloppy now.

<3 it was originally a lot longer, and more intricate, with part images cut and pasted out of the pdf, and other thoughts and examples, but I figured I should keep it simple.

So... the knob is back to the way it was before. And it works almost every time now. But, and I've seen it with other doors, it bugs me when that damn latch thingy works. And if there would be a way to make it work, without them noticing it had been improved, I'd like to... but I think anything would be too noticeable. And then it would all spiral into how'd I notice it, and I'd rather avoid that conversation.
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:25 PM RedEyes is offline  
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ceejamon
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I'd be surprised if you didn't really mangle the innards. Even bent back into shape, things are going to work quite right. I wonder if you couldn't just make a trip to home depot and pick up an identical handle and rob the guts out of it? If they match perfectly, you could just swap the whole thing and be done with it. Or, if you're a bad person, you could swap guts and return the purchased pieces as defective.

I have two of these for random crazy occasions like this. One is on my keychain and one is in a magnetic box under my car. Once you learn to pick and have a set, it's amazing how often you'll need them. In the past month I've picked open a neighbor's condo who locked herself out, a filing cabinet at work because somebody who was fired took off with the keys, and my parent's neighbor at Thanksgiving. They were feeding their dog while the family was out of town, and made the same mistake you did.
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Old 12-17-2010, 06:15 AM ceejamon is offline  
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RedEyes
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I replace the warped latch cylinder parts, the two knob/lever components seem ok.

I don't think the lock assembly would swap out, ceej, but I might be misreading the instructions?

The other thing we just noticed was that the key doesn't trigger the pins if you go hilt deep, but I'm wondering if that is because this is a copy and not an original.
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Old 12-19-2010, 06:43 AM RedEyes is offline  
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gee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceejamon View Post
I have two of these for random crazy occasions like this. One is on my keychain and one is in a magnetic box under my car. Once you learn to pick and have a set, it's amazing how often you'll need them. In the past month I've picked open a neighbor's condo who locked herself out, a filing cabinet at work because somebody who was fired took off with the keys, and my parent's neighbor at Thanksgiving. They were feeding their dog while the family was out of town, and made the same mistake you did.
I can't really recommend buying a lock pick set to anyone, unless a few points are made:

- Picking locks is a tedious process that requires a lot of patience and practice to get good at. You can't just buy a lock pick set to keep around "just in case", grab a book also (or grab the MIT book online somewhere) and spend a few hours picking various locks around the house also.

- If you're mainly going to be opening residential locks, a bump key set is a lot quicker to use. Especially here in Canada, almost everyone has either a Schlage or Weiser 5-pin lock on their front door and 2 bump keys will open almost anyone's house. Which is why I have Medeco locks on my house...

- Everyone assumes you're up to no good if you're picking a lock, and will likely call the cops on you. Plus don't expect the police to be well informed on the laws of lock picking.

And on the third note. Several years back, one of my friends locked himself out of his apartment by accident - the building manager was going to be a several hours showing up and he needed his work uniform, so I decided to help him out and pick his lock. Well the lock was being a bitch, and I had to give up about 10 minutes in when we were interrupted by a police officer pointing a gun at us...

Turns out a neighbor spotted us and called the cops. We ended up getting handcuffed and brought to the police station. My friend got out early when it was determined that he lived in the apartment, but I ended up staying at the station until the following afternoon when I was informed that the apartment building owner wasn't going to be pressing charges against me. Never did get my lock pick set back...
Old 12-19-2010, 12:21 PM gee is offline  
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ceejamon
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I can't really recommend buying a lock pick set to anyone, unless a few points are made:

- Picking locks is a tedious process that requires a lot of patience and practice to get good at. You can't just buy a lock pick set to keep around "just in case", grab a book also (or grab the MIT book online somewhere) and spend a few hours picking various locks around the house also.

- If you're mainly going to be opening residential locks, a bump key set is a lot quicker to use. Especially here in Canada, almost everyone has either a Schlage or Weiser 5-pin lock on their front door and 2 bump keys will open almost anyone's house. Which is why I have Medeco locks on my house...

- Everyone assumes you're up to no good if you're picking a lock, and will likely call the cops on you. Plus don't expect the police to be well informed on the laws of lock picking.

And on the third note. Several years back, one of my friends locked himself out of his apartment by accident - the building manager was going to be a several hours showing up and he needed his work uniform, so I decided to help him out and pick his lock. Well the lock was being a bitch, and I had to give up about 10 minutes in when we were interrupted by a police officer pointing a gun at us...

Turns out a neighbor spotted us and called the cops. We ended up getting handcuffed and brought to the police station. My friend got out early when it was determined that he lived in the apartment, but I ended up staying at the station until the following afternoon when I was informed that the apartment building owner wasn't going to be pressing charges against me. Never did get my lock pick set back...

Lock picking isn't that hard. I learned in a weekend when I was 14 (just for fun, of course ) and after a lot of practice I got to the point where I can pick most locks in under a minute. It takes a while to get good at it, yes, but even if it takes you 10 minutes it's useful for situations like this one. It's also useful to know how unsafe locks are. Masterlocks can be shimmed with a Pepsi can and an knife. You can make an electric lockpick from an electric toothbrush, a 9 volt battery, a windshield wiper blade, and a file. Locks just keep stupid thieves out and keep honest men honest.

As for legal trouble: Check your state laws on lockpick possession, and treat it like calling a locksmith: don't mess with locks you don't have the rights to change (like in your apartment building example - the building owned those locks and could have pressed charges), and don't pick a lock without somebody present who lives there and has ID to prove it.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:12 AM ceejamon is offline  
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