General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > Bone Closet
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
1999
 
How to gain weight with vegan dietary restrictions?

I need your help. It's recently come to my attention that I am indeed losing weight and I would like to reverse this trend before I start losing muscle mass - I wouldn't be necessarily alarmed by it but I haven't had any radical changes in my diet recently and I am perfectly healthy so it is causing some concern.

It has always been difficult for me to put on weight either due to high metabolism, a poor appetite, or a combination of both. I am trying to get back into a more intense exercise routine but with the way my body is wired, exercise isn't as effective as it could be unless I'm eating a lot as well. The problem is, I am not a big eater to begin with and I have certain dietary restrictions. I adhere to a vegan diet/lifestyle - I would not describe myself as especially strict about it but I prefer not to eat soy, dairy (lactose intolerance), sugar or eggs (or products containing animal products in general). My appetite isn't that high either. I burn a lot of energy during the day cycling, yet when it comes to recovering spent energy, I am a notoriously slow eater so eating a big meal is a huge undertaking and I usually won't finish in one sitting. I feel "full" quickly and the times I've forced myself to gorge something down result in indigestion and/or nausea.

My two goals are,

1) figure out what foods will allow me to gain the most weight with regards to building muscle. Is loading up on carbs (rice, pasta) recommended for building muscle mass?

and,

2) figure out a way to increase my appetite so I can eat more, quicker.

I've spoken to my doctor about working out in the past and he prescribed me an appetite stimulant, but I've been using it on and off for some time and I honestly can't tell if it is working or not. I'm not necessarily eating more while I am on the medication. I can go back to using that more regularly but if anyone has any tips to increase my appetite (or a different medicine I should ask for - currently prescribed, Megestrol Acetate Oral Suspension), I'd appreciate it. I'm just not a good eater in general; I'm the type of person that "forgets" to eat if I'm busy working on something. A regular eating schedule is almost non-existant to me. The closest is breakfast; I eat a bowl of oatmeal and drink a glass of fruit juice/smoothie in the morning and I'm out the door.

One more thing about the dietary restrictions; I'm willing to eat eggs if that is what it comes to - my only quick, high energy, high protein solution right now is a peanut butter sandwich; I hear boiled eggs - egg whites - are also good, is that correct? My primary concern and motivation for this thread is that if I don't do something drastic I will continue to lose weight past my ideal weight range (I'm 5'5 and ideally I'd like to be in the 140-150lbs range - I've recently emaciated to 130lbs and I would not be surprised to see that drop if I continue on my current path). I can't let that continue to happen. Most people will tell you it is great to have low body fat (people question whether or not I work out in a gym because I, "don't need it." WTF?) but I also don't want to be very thin. I may be a slight bit paranoid, but my face looks gaunt compared to just a few weeks ago and that worries me.

I do know how to cook. It's not a regular thing due to my schedule but it's something I enjoy. Perhaps I can come away from this thread with more go-to meal ideas for maintaining or building muscle. A lot of the vegan meals I prepare are delicious but they tend to be too, "healthy," for lack of a better word to describe them. They are not necessarily designed to help you gain weight.

Words?
Old 02-18-2010, 12:41 AM 1999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#1  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

Frenetic
 
Frenetic's Avatar
 
I am not a vegan, but I did work out with a guy who was one, so hopefully I can help. The general rule of thumb is that athletes need 1g of protein per pound and bodybuilders need 1.5g/lb a day. So if you weigh 130lbs., you're going to need at least 194 grams of protein a day to gain muscle mass.

1) What foods will allow a vegan to gain muscle mass? Make friends with beans, soy, grains, legumes, and tofu products. Even vegetables like spinach can help you out. Here's a segment from a vegan bodybuilding article I found that could give you an idea of what you need to eat.

Quote:
I pay special attention to protein and my main protein sources come from hemp, soy, tempeh, nuts, beans, lentils, grains and a variety of powders and bars including complete meal replacements, adding up to 200-300 grams per day. Tofu, a soy product, typically has 10-20 grams of protein per serving. Soy also has a Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) of 1.0, which is the highest protein rating for a food to have, and it scores higher than beef protein. Hemp is one of the best sources of protein, period. It is alkalizing, packed full of nutrients, and is grown from the most sustainable methods, making it arguably the best resource. We often hear about protein combinations to make a complete protein. This is an accumulation of essential amino acids. Combining sources such as hemp, rice and pea provide a powerful amino acid profile for enhanced biomechanical efficiency. Taking in large quantities of protein can be taxing on the liver and kidneys so it is important to drink a lot of water when you're on a high protein diet. Drinking water helps your body's organs process large amounts of protein. In addition to the high protein foods, I also eat a significant amount of fruits, green vegetables, and eat raw and organic foods whenever possible. Raw sources of protein can be found in nuts, seeds, seaweed, broccoli, spinach, kale, and other veggies and are some of the most potent and most beneficial sources of protein available on the planet.
Later on the body builder talks about a normal day of eating for him, so I highly recommend the read. The biggest difference here is that protein isn't packed into a potato like it is a chicken breast, so you need to pull your proteins from multiple sources.

2) How to increase your appetite to eat more? There is no magic bullet here, no matter what your dietary choice is. You eat more simply by eating more. You lift more weights by packing on more weight over time. You can't do a shortcut around the iron, and you can't do a shortcut on your metabolism. You've stated that you have no real dietary schedule, and if you don't change that, it won't matter what you eat. My friend told me he ate and drank water every 3-4 hours (these were not huge meals by any means, but still). After you figure out your protein goals and what kinds of food you want to eat, you need to start preparing food for the next day. Make it a starting goal to eat four meals a day, and eat like a king for breakfast to start you off right. Exercise regularly to build up your appetite and go from there.

I know these changes will not be easy or fun, but at the end of the day, you need to be more thoughtful and disciplined than the omnivore lifting weights beside you at the gym. I had a girlfriend once who was a vegetarian, but she let her diet go to shit and she went anemic. Right now your body is saying that it's really lacking in basic nutrients and you need to address that. Browse veganbodybuilding.com to see how other people meet their body's nutritional needs, make some basic goals to start, and follow them.

Last edited by Frenetic; 02-18-2010 at 08:10 AM..
Old 02-18-2010, 07:52 AM Frenetic is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
I've posted this before......looks like it's time again. I will modify it for Vegan diet though:

2 cups of soy milk
1 cup of oats
2 Tablespoons of olive oil (EFAs)
1 large Banana
9 ounces of fresh strawberries
1 cup (140 grams) of organic blueberries
2 ounces of ground up almonds (EFAs - will make the shake a little thicker)

(You can also add vegan ice cream for more creaminess and more calories)

Put all the liquid ingredients into the blender first and then do the following:

For the almonds and oats: Take the oats and put them into a coffee grinder and grind the oats into a powder. Then pour into the blender. For the almonds, it'll take a bit longer to grind. When they are done, the almonds will have the same consistency as brown sugar. Then add that to the blender and hit "Chop" for about a minute and then "Liquify" for another couple minutes until the shake is very smooth...and enjoy!

You can also add soy protein and Peanut butter for more calories
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 02-18-2010, 09:26 AM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#3  

1999
 
Thanks and thanks!

Need to look into getting myself a coffee grinder. That recipe looks delicious.


Some creative searching lead to this website,

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/justin2.htm

Good stuff. They even have a protein and carb calculator.


Now I need to sit down and plan some meals. My main concern here is sticking to my routine even when I go out to eat with friends or don't spend the night at home. Is alcohol okay while trying to build muscle? I've read differing accounts on the matter and some of the more extreme workout programs like P9OX recommend cutting it out completely.
Old 02-18-2010, 11:40 AM 1999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#4  

trajectory
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1999 View Post
Is alcohol okay while trying to build muscle? I've read differing accounts on the matter and some of the more extreme workout programs like P9OX recommend cutting it out completely.

It's probably safest to avoid drinking, or avoid it in large quantities.
http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_onli...l_kills_muscle
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...e_to_alcohol_1
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

I wonder if megestrol would affect your hormone levels or your ability to gain muscle. Anybody else have some insight?
"Megestrol is a progesterone derivative.....Males may have some feminizing effects such as gynecomastia (breast development)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megestrol_acetate
__________________
25632a0b7c1c89ee24490be669336367 [y yuo throw haet :( :(] porn may <3's yuo.
Old 02-18-2010, 12:52 PM trajectory is offline  
Reply With Quote
#5  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1999 View Post
Thanks and thanks!

Need to look into getting myself a coffee grinder. That recipe looks delicious.


Some creative searching lead to this website,

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/justin2.htm

Good stuff. They even have a protein and carb calculator.


Now I need to sit down and plan some meals. My main concern here is sticking to my routine even when I go out to eat with friends or don't spend the night at home. Is alcohol okay while trying to build muscle? I've read differing accounts on the matter and some of the more extreme workout programs like P9OX recommend cutting it out completely.

Keep in mind the main market for P90 is for those looking to lose fat......not gain weight. You'll put on some muscle, but it's not the main target audience.
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 02-18-2010, 01:15 PM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#6  

Forever Domon
 
Forever Domon's Avatar
 
Uhh, why would you be adverse to soy. Thats a plant.

Also, you basically have zero ways of getting protein without it
Old 02-18-2010, 01:18 PM Forever Domon is offline  
Reply With Quote
#7  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
Uhh, why would you be adverse to soy. Thats a plant.

Also, you basically have zero ways of getting protein without it

Beans
Nuts
Legumes

are all sources of protein.
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 02-18-2010, 01:35 PM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#8  

Forever Domon
 
Forever Domon's Avatar
 
ok, I stand corrected, but i find it really odd that he doesnt eat soy on a moral vegan rationale.
Old 02-18-2010, 01:40 PM Forever Domon is offline  
Reply With Quote
#9  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
ok, I stand corrected, but i find it really odd that he doesnt eat soy on a moral vegan rationale.

Unless he despises the taste of it.
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 02-18-2010, 01:45 PM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#10  

xagent
 
I'm sorry but I just don't think vegan lifestyle is suited for any type of bodybuilding, or physical fitness at all.

You say supplement with protein powders. But where is whey derived from? milk! Where is casein derived from? milk! And almost all shakes are either whey, or a blend of whey, casein, and egg protein. You also can't have cottage cheese, one of the healthiest forms of cheese available.

Also, what is the harm in eating eggs? True it's an animal product, but the eggs we eat are unfertile eggs. Eggs that the hen would naturally lay. There is no embryo inside, no chicken fetus you are "killing". If you're worried about the ethical consequences of forcing hens into cages and injecting them with hormones so they lay larger eggs, why not go for organic or free-range eggs?

Egg is one of the best protein sources around. Limit yourself to one yolk a day and eat plenty of egg whites. Low fat, no carbs, packed with protein. I believe egg protein is also the standard against which all other protein sources are compared, in terms of absorption.

There's various rankings scales, PER (protein effiency ratio), NPU (net protein utilization), etc.. but I remember that egg and milk protein ranks at the #1, and are given the ranks of 100. You are already missing out on chicken, fish, and lean red meats. As a vegan, you're also missing out on healthy dairy products and eggs. And since vegans can't have dairy, whey and casein and pretty much every protein shake/supplement is out the door.

What does that leave you? Soy, which you don't have either for some odd reason? Why? Now you can't even have soy protein, tofu, soy milk...

eh beans, legumes, nuts, whole wheat, that's about it. So in a nutshell, you're really missing out. Sure, technically it's feasible. But pretty fucking hard. Especially if you're a vegan. I think it's just a sacrifice you'll have to make if you want to be a vegan.



BUT, to answer your thread:

No, don't load up on carbs. Carbs don't give you muscle mass. Carbs will give you energy. To get muscle you'll need to lift hard and heavy, and eat around 1 - 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. Your calories in should be >> calories burned. That's how you gain weight. To make sure it's muscle, you need to lift and consume enough protein.

There's no other way around it. Eat big to get big. Remeber that. Eat big to get big
__________________
"We're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good" - Hillary Clinton
Old 02-18-2010, 03:29 PM xagent is offline  
Reply With Quote
#11  

1999
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trajectory View Post
I wonder if megestrol would affect your hormone levels or your ability to gain muscle. Anybody else have some insight?
"Megestrol is a progesterone derivative.....Males may have some feminizing effects such as gynecomastia (breast development)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megestrol_acetate

Wait, the fuck? I followed your link and got to this link,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenal_insufficiency

and now I'm planning a visit to the doctor because I was experiencing some of the symptoms described quite frequently during winter break (especially the abdominal pain which was excruciating on some days) but they suddenly subsided so I never bothered to follow up on it - also, the first time I went to the doctor for it, they messed up the tests I took. Self diagnosis is a bad idea but I was on that medicine for a long time (on and off for about 2 years) and that list of symptoms explains what I've been going through. I really hope this isn't the case because it sounds more serious than I thought :\

Quote:
Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
ok, I stand corrected, but i find it really odd that he doesnt eat soy on a moral vegan rationale.

"Prefer not to eat themů" it's not for moral reasons, LOL.

Coqui knows what's up. BTW, thanks for the heads up on P9OX. I might copy some ideas from there but the whole thing seems a bit too extreme for what I want to accomplish.
Old 02-18-2010, 07:31 PM 1999 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#12  

edplayer
no
 
edplayer's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenetic View Post
So if you weigh 130lbs., you're going to need at least 194 grams of protein a day to gain muscle mass.


complete
__________________
[QUOTE=g|aSsJaw;25381610]0/0 = undefined, it's a vertical line[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=g|aSsJaw;25381666]I'm not going to go back and forth with you about it all night, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
Old 02-22-2010, 03:15 AM edplayer is offline  
Reply With Quote
#13  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:34 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.