General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
[H]ard|On's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
again i'm not against protesting corporatism at all, i'm just a little hesitant to participate in their scape goating and their whole pro statist ideology (though of course the protests themselves are splintered, not everyone there is a statist, have a look at the video i posted of that guy on page 1)

just an fyi, supporting obama again in 2012 won't do anything to combat this, your reluctance to even entertain the idea of a third party is a little off putting especially given how much shit needs to be fixed.

if a similar protest like this happened in europe (or any other part of the world for that matter) one of the first things the protestors would do is organize into a party to have a unified and coherent front and a real shot at changing things.

and the illegal migrants hurt the poorest of the poor in america the most because they devalue the labor and flood the very jobs that used to be there just in case you were caught on hard times in life you could always pick crops or work construction for a decent wage, but now you can't do that any more because mexicans are willing to do it for $8/hour, while indirectly draining the already scant social services this country offers.

I am not opposed to a third party conceptually - I would rather have more options on the table. Keep the other guys on their toes. I am not thrilled about the reality of our third parties however. Ron paul, Huckabee, all those guys miss the mark. Instead of saying they will push hard to work the existing system in our favor they scare everybody away by saying they will take the system outside and put it in the trash. Add the fact that saying and doing are very far appart, and it's easy to see why most people consider 3rd parties to be snake oil.

Obama did a few things and he has been pushier than ever lately, and in my eyes he's the best of the worst. On one hand voting for the less bad guy is wrong, on the other it's the only thing to do. People who "protest vote" for some quack with no chance are like children who don't want to eat their whole dinner because there are vegetables on the plate.

You have to eat the peas or you don't get any ice cream. I used to be too cool to pick one, called myself an indy and refused to actually pay real attention to politics. The more I do, the more I realize how many good people and viewpoints exist as it is, without the need for crazy shit. We don't need to water the tree of liberty with blood, and we don't need a flat 30% sales tax
__________________
Make Genmay Great Again
Old 10-06-2011, 05:42 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
Reply With Quote
#211  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

5ive
 
5ive's Avatar
 
They actually do pay taxes and they don't take jobs -- the companies offer them the jobs. If you want to get mad at someone don't blame the people trying to improve their lives
__________________
Chicho is full of win.
Member #5 of the Romeoz God R.I.P Collective
Old 10-06-2011, 05:45 PM 5ive is offline  
Reply With Quote
#212  

IcW@teR
Ice Cool
 
IcW@teR's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
And yet everyone loves those $2/lbs tomatoes...

We have a whole shadow economy based on subverting labor laws. Business loves it and lobbies hard to keep the channels open for illegals; why do you think we haven't seen any substantive changes in immigration law in decades? Some of it is really necessary, a lot of our agriculture just can't function paying minimum wage. People are not going to spend $15/lbs on tomatoes. We could have a lot better ways of dealing with this problem though, other countries (Germany, Switzerland) do guest worker programs that have different labor laws.

shit, i wont spend one dollar a pound on tomatoes
__________________
The secret to success, whether it's women or money, is knowing when to quit. I oughta know: I'm divorced and broke.
Old 10-06-2011, 05:46 PM IcW@teR is offline  
Reply With Quote
#213  

[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
[H]ard|On's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Corporations provide a huge number of jobs IN CHINA and most of the goods and services that we all need and want. Of course they're useful. We'd have no economy without them, talk about "small businesses" aside. Their influence is way out of wack, but they're an absolutely essential part of the functioning of any modern nation.

There I fixed it for you I'm not saying "banish coorporations" I am saying make sure they obey the existing laws that help ensure what you said is true - not side step this shit, stiff arm it and run to china for labor and use some kind of distant island for a tax heaven.
__________________
Make Genmay Great Again
Old 10-06-2011, 05:47 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
Reply With Quote
#214  

[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
[H]ard|On's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jehannum View Post
I don't remember electing Hank Paulson, Tim Geithner, Alan Greenspan, or Ben Bernanke.

Or Bernie, who trained "watchdogs" for the SEC and lectured about how the process could never fail because of people like them making sure it doesn't.
__________________
Make Genmay Great Again
Old 10-06-2011, 05:49 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
Reply With Quote
#215  

Redrum
Crate&Barrel Roll
 
Redrum's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
And yet everyone loves those $2/lbs tomatoes...

We have a whole shadow economy based on subverting labor laws. Business loves it and lobbies hard to keep the channels open for illegals; why do you think we haven't seen any substantive changes in immigration law in decades? Some of it is really necessary, a lot of our agriculture just can't function paying minimum wage. People are not going to spend $15/lbs on tomatoes. We could have a lot better ways of dealing with this problem though, other countries (Germany, Switzerland) do guest worker programs that have different labor laws.

so you're saying in many cases minimum wage laws do nothing but drive up prices?

libertarians have been screaming this for nearly a century.

i'm pretty sure tomatoes were no more expensive fifty years ago than they are now prior to the massive employment of illegals.
__________________
lol
Old 10-06-2011, 05:49 PM Redrum is offline  
Reply With Quote
#216  

Redrum
Crate&Barrel Roll
 
Redrum's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
I am not opposed to a third party conceptually - I would rather have more options on the table. Keep the other guys on their toes. I am not thrilled about the reality of our third parties however. Ron paul, Huckabee, all those guys miss the mark. Instead of saying they will push hard to work the existing system in our favor they scare everybody away by saying they will take the system outside and put it in the trash. Add the fact that saying and doing are very far appart, and it's easy to see why most people consider 3rd parties to be snake oil.

Obama did a few things and he has been pushier than ever lately, and in my eyes he's the best of the worst. On one hand voting for the less bad guy is wrong, on the other it's the only thing to do. People who "protest vote" for some quack with no chance are like children who don't want to eat their whole dinner because there are vegetables on the plate.

You have to eat the peas or you don't get any ice cream. I used to be too cool to pick one, called myself an indy and refused to actually pay real attention to politics. The more I do, the more I realize how many good people and viewpoints exist as it is, without the need for crazy shit. We don't need to water the tree of liberty with blood, and we don't need a flat 30% sales tax

obama won't do shit for you, neither will any one from the republican side, keep on defending the two party system while hating on corporatism, yet corporatism thrives precisely because of it
__________________
lol
Old 10-06-2011, 05:51 PM Redrum is offline  
Reply With Quote
#217  

Xcric
i have 3 girlfriends but they dont know it yet
 
Xcric's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive View Post
They actually do pay taxes and they don't take jobs -- the companies offer them the jobs. If you want to get mad at someone don't blame the people trying to improve their lives

really? because every illegal i've ever talked to, and every one my friend has ever worked with, has been paid off the books. thats not really taxable now is it?

i'm not really blaming them for anything, i'm just saying they're part of a series of problems that has brought about such a fucked up state to our economy that someone like vigilante can't even find a job washing dishes.
__________________
“My sorrow: to dream of simple times and wake in mine . . . .”
—Ola DaRiol, “Regrets”
Old 10-06-2011, 05:53 PM Xcric is offline  
Reply With Quote
#218  

[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
[H]ard|On's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
obama won't do shit for you, neither will any one from the republican side, keep on defending the two party system while hating on corporatism, yet corporatism thrives previously because of it

Agree to disagree. I can't bring myself to believe anyone else more than him and most other democrats.

I know the pieces fit, because I watched them fall away. That's a Tool lyric, and I feel it's true in this case. The system is functional because it used to function and we have the data and economic indicators to show this. We don't need a paradigm shift, we need clean up on isle 10.

Bush administration and his never ending horse shit with "unlawful combatants", the war on terror, tax cuts - is the most damaging and long lasting misfortune that has fallen on this country barring the civil war.
__________________
Make Genmay Great Again
Old 10-06-2011, 06:00 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
Reply With Quote
#219  

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
so you're saying in many cases minimum wage laws do nothing but drive up prices?

libertarians have been screaming this for nearly a century.

i'm pretty sure tomatoes were no more expensive fifty years ago than they are now prior to the massive employment of illegals.

I don't really know enough about labor markets to say much about minimum wages. Most of those $2/hr jobs can and should be exported to other countries, but some of them need to be local. Our crops need to be grown here, but I don't really see any reason why Americans have to do the labor or would be willing to work for $2/hr.
Old 10-06-2011, 06:31 PM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#220  

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
really? because every illegal i've ever talked to, and every one my friend has ever worked with, has been paid off the books. thats not really taxable now is it?

Common practice in the landscape industry is for workers to show up with a (fake) SS card. They're ostensibly legal, they get SS tax withheld, payroll tax, etc. They can't file returns and they're not eligible for SS benefits, so they never get that money back. The SS office has published statistics on it, there's a LOT of money coming in from illegals.

Also they pay sales tax like everyone else.
Old 10-06-2011, 06:34 PM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#221  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street
Old 10-06-2011, 07:09 PM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#222  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Common practice in the landscape industry is for workers to show up with a (fake) SS card. They're ostensibly legal, they get SS tax withheld, payroll tax, etc. They can't file returns and they're not eligible for SS benefits, so they never get that money back. The SS office has published statistics on it, there's a LOT of money coming in from illegals.

Also they pay sales tax like everyone else.

and property taxes through their rent...
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street
Old 10-06-2011, 07:10 PM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#223  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
really? because every illegal i've ever talked to, and every one my friend has ever worked with, has been paid off the books. thats not really taxable now is it?

Do you think those same jobs would be paid above the table if an illegal wasn't doing it?
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street
Old 10-06-2011, 07:11 PM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#224  

Redrum
Crate&Barrel Roll
 
Redrum's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
Agree to disagree. I can't bring myself to believe anyone else more than him and most other democrats.

I know the pieces fit, because I watched them fall away. That's a Tool lyric, and I feel it's true in this case. The system is functional because it used to function and we have the data and economic indicators to show this. We don't need a paradigm shift, we need clean up on isle 10.

Bush administration and his never ending horse shit with "unlawful combatants", the war on terror, tax cuts - is the most damaging and long lasting misfortune that has fallen on this country barring the civil war.
lol woah buddy, don't know how unlawful combants factors into anything but SINCE you bring it up...obama just used a tomahawk cruise missile to kill an american citizen WITHOUT trial...and lets not forget the hordes of democrats who voted in favor of both wars, and the patriot act.
__________________
lol

Last edited by Redrum; 10-06-2011 at 08:21 PM..
Old 10-06-2011, 08:10 PM Redrum is offline  
Reply With Quote
#225  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:41 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.