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cromicus
I act tough on genmay, but real life im a pussy
 
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Alright about this billions-of-years-ago nonsense:

It is a fundamental component of the scientific method that the hypothesis be supported by observable evidence and that the observable evidence can be recreated by a repetition of the experiment. If your hypothesis solely concerns a historical fact (ten thousand years ago, human beings really had only one eye), that is not something that can be observed or repeated (without time machines). Therefore, a conclusion that goes no further than to state a historical fact is not a scientific conclusion in the truest sense.

So in paleontology, the scientific conclusions that can be drawn must be tied to the samples taken (fossils) and because of what we know about the chemistry of fossilization we can confidently use those conclusions to state facts about the state of the world before the present. But they always come with the caveat (usually implied) that because nobody actually observed dinosaurs in action, it is only the conclusions about the conditions of the fossils that are rigorously scientific (because the fossils can be observed directly and tested repeatedly). And the same usually goes for physics, but since the concepts of "time" and "observation" are sometimes in dispute in physics, it's possible to lose your frame of reference.

In the end, it's ludicrous to assume conclusively that our observations of the world today are exactly the same as they always would have been had we only been alive at that time. It's entirely possible that the natural world was transplanted onto the earth by aliens who left no detectable trace. The best we can do is observe the state of the world today and, using our minds, make logical extrapolations about the state of the world a long time ago, bearing in mind that we are no longer inducing by experiment, but deducting from the last best inductions from experiment, and those conclusions are, until we can experiment on them, scientifically hazardous.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:02 AM cromicus is offline  
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Escaped Gorilla Genitals
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post


Yes, because gravity cannot be tested in a laboratory, and it worked differently billions of years ago than it does now. Get a grip.
You mean just like the chemical reactions that take place in cells that change DNA can't be tested in a laboratory and worked different billions of years ago? GET A GRIP HURR DURR



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
What? I'm sure he's going to be a Jesus to his neighborhood, and donate everything he makes to improve it. Him getting a good education and a good job magically improves minority literacy and decimates the poverty status in his neighborhood, and all of the white students who are discriminated against when they tried to get into the schools that he did are just overjoyed that despite their denied en to the school/workplace, their suffering is somehow making minority life better.
Yes, I already know you don't understand how society works or how to improve the prospects of impoverished people, thanks.
Old 01-08-2008, 02:47 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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#197  

SebG
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Just because of that, he lost my vote.
Old 01-08-2008, 03:08 PM SebG is offline  
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#198  

SnakeIRye
 
http://www.talkorigins.org/

Read up on it. There are hundreds of other sites with excellent information on why evolution is fact. Creationists are ignorant or trying to manipulate the religious for their own shifty objectives.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:55 PM SnakeIRye is offline  
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#199  

Gibonius
 
Personally, I don't really like the whole "evolution is fact from a layman's perspective" stuff. It's really going to be more beneficial to explain to people exactly what a theory is and the degree of certainty behind evolution. Half the problem is that too many people don't understand the real scientific terminology, compounding that by calling evolution "effectively a fact" doesn't help anything. Explains the facts about evolution, and explain the theory.
Old 01-08-2008, 05:48 PM Gibonius is offline  
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#200  

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You mean just like the chemical reactions that take place in cells that change DNA can't be tested in a laboratory and worked different billions of years ago? GET A GRIP HURR DURR



I digress on the planetary formation formation too, seeing as this is labeled as a theory too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_formation



Quote:
Yes, I already know you don't understand how society works or how to improve the prospects of impoverished people, thanks.
That's why everyone jumped behind you and berated me for my apparently stupid notions, right? Wait, that was you.

The worst things you posted, though, were your disbelief of affirmative action causing racism, and your acknowledgment of AA being racism yet your continuing promotion of it. Simply amazing.
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:16 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
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#201  

ry_goody
 
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Guys. I have some news for you.
Some scientifically evidenced fact.



Everything you see, at the most microscopic quantum level, is composed of two particles. Boson and Fermion.

Two Particles, Two Points, make everything in the known universe, this is a scientific fact.

Are any one of you 'intelligent scientific types' capable of explaining to me how postulating everything in the known universe, even the thoughts in your head, to be composed of Two Points is any less crazy than postulating everything in the known universe to be composed of One Point (God)?

I really don't see what the hell you guys are even talking about. Do you not realize that even science itself has nearly evidenced the existence of God? Ok it's evidenced the existence of Two Gods, Two Points, Two Particles the nature of and will of come to manifest everything in the known universe we see, think and experience.

Think people think. Postulating everything to be from ONE point is only 50% "crazier" than postulating everything to be of TWO points like Quantum Theory does.

And atleast IN MY OPINION, you need hardly even half a brain to notice that. We came from 270 molecules, to 3 atomic particles, to 2 quantum particles. What next? Oh I think there might just be "ONE" particle. It seems like a VERY logical extrapolation of this direction of studying the subatomic realm because the only place left to go after discovering TWO points govern is then discovering that ONE point governs all.

Please actually think about this. Throw off all your complications and bullshit and personal delusions running through your head and think about the simple fact that Science currently has EVIDENCED everything in the known universe, even the thoughts in your head, to be governed by the nature of TWO POINTS in space. Two Holographic Points, of which distance between them is technically non-existent at their subatomic level.

Seriously actually think about this. All you arguing this do you realize that the debate of GOD vs SCIENCE is actually nothing more than a debate of EVERYTHING IS COMPOSED OF ONE PARTICLE vs EVERYTHING IS COMPOSED OF TWO PARTICLES. You guys realize thats the only thing you have been arguing all these pages? Is Spirituality and Religion correct in postulating ONE that governs all, or is science and current quantum theory correct in postulating TWO governs all.

And then lets just connect another dot here cause I know some of you hate to do this on your own. All of evolution is governed by the nature of TWO PARTICLES, TWO POINTS IN SPACE by current evidenced scientific fact.

All religion says is evolution is governed by ONE PARTICLE.
Of course though they replaced 'evolution' with an oddly simplified story. But evolution is evolution no matter what.
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:32 PM ry_goody is offline  
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#202  

Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
Guys. I have some news for you.
Some scientifically evidenced fact.



Everything you see, at the most microscopic quantum level, is composed of two particles. Boson and Fermion.

Two Particles, Two Points, make everything in the known universe, this is a scientific fact.

Are any one of you 'intelligent scientific types' capable of explaining to me how postulating everything in the known universe, even the thoughts in your head, to be composed of Two Points is any less crazy than postulating everything in the known universe to be composed of One Point (God)?

I really don't see what the hell you guys are even talking about. Do you not realize that even science itself has nearly evidenced the existence of God? Ok it's evidenced the existence of Two Gods, Two Points, Two Particles the nature of and will of come to manifest everything in the known universe we see, think and experience.

Think people think. Postulating everything to be from ONE point is only 50% "crazier" than postulating everything to be of TWO points like Quantum Theory does.

And atleast IN MY OPINION, you need hardly even half a brain to notice that. We came from 270 molecules, to 3 atomic particles, to 2 quantum particles. What next? Oh I think there might just be "ONE" particle. It seems like a VERY logical extrapolation of this direction of studying the subatomic realm because the only place left to go after discovering TWO points govern is then discovering that ONE point governs all.

Please actually think about this. Throw off all your complications and and personal delusions running through your head and think about the simple fact that Science currently has EVIDENCED everything in the known universe, even the thoughts in your head, to be governed by the nature of TWO POINTS in space. Two Holographic Points, of which distance between them is technically non-existent at their subatomic level.

Seriously actually think about this. All you arguing this do you realize that the debate of GOD vs SCIENCE is actually nothing more than a debate of EVERYTHING IS COMPOSED OF ONE PARTICLE vs EVERYTHING IS COMPOSED OF TWO PARTICLES. You guys realize thats the only thing you have been arguing all these pages? Is Spirituality and Religion correct in postulating ONE that governs all, or is science and current quantum theory correct in postulating TWO governs all.

And then lets just connect another dot here cause I know some of you hate to do this on your own. All of evolution is governed by the nature of TWO PARTICLES, TWO POINTS IN SPACE by current evidenced scientific fact.

All religion says is evolution is governed by ONE PARTICLE.
Of course though they replaced 'evolution' with an oddly simplified story. But evolution is evolution no matter what.

k
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:33 PM Straw Man is offline  
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#203  

Xayd
 
i think what he's getting at is "2particles1cup".
Old 01-08-2008, 06:40 PM Xayd is offline  
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#204  

Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
i think what he's getting at is "2particles1cup".

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Old 01-08-2008, 06:42 PM Straw Man is offline  
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#205  

SnakeIRye
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Personally, I don't really like the whole "evolution is fact from a layman's perspective" stuff. It's really going to be more beneficial to explain to people exactly what a theory is and the degree of certainty behind evolution. Half the problem is that too many people don't understand the real scientific terminology, compounding that by calling evolution "effectively a fact" doesn't help anything.

Listen to the people around you and see how well calling evolution "just a theory" has worked out. For all intents and purposes, it is fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Explains the facts about evolution, and explain the theory.

...the facts do explain the theory...

pre-edit: Now that I'm trying to understand your comment. I'm assuming you meant what we know is concrete about evolutionary theory and what is "up in the air." The only thing that is really debateable is the rate of mutation, adaption and when species branched off.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:24 PM SnakeIRye is offline  
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#206  

ry_goody
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Personally, I don't really like the whole "evolution is fact from a layman's perspective" stuff. It's really going to be more beneficial to explain to people exactly what a theory is and the degree of certainty behind evolution. Half the problem is that too many people don't understand the real scientific terminology, compounding that by calling evolution "effectively a fact" doesn't help anything. Explains the facts about evolution, and explain the theory.

If all comes from one source, GOD

then if you go back far enough, obviously ONE, had to split into two

Two, into four etc.

So clearly, if you go back far enough, at one point. We were the same as plants, we were the same as animals. This is not theory, this is not science, this is just logical deduction. If you believe in god, if you believe in a singular source, a singular point that everything spawned from over a process of time. Then you go back to the beginning and everything was that single source. We were the same as animals, as rocks, as plants, as planets, as gas, as energy. We had to spread and branch out over time from a single point to get to our complex uniqueness we are today.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:33 PM ry_goody is offline  
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#207  

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeIRye View Post
Listen to the people around you and see how well calling evolution "just a theory" has worked out. For all intents and purposes, it is fact.



...the facts do explain the theory...

pre-edit: Now that I'm trying to understand your comment. I'm assuming you meant what we know is concrete about evolutionary theory and what is "up in the air." The only thing that is really debateable is the rate of mutation, adaption and when species branched off.

Giving people a "for all intents and purposes" just muddies the waters. Rather than corrupting the dialogue by using vernacular terms, teach people what THEORY and FACT really mean and go from there. Make it clear they aren't just two points on a sliding scale of certainty. Demonstate the observables behind evolution, the facts. We KNOW that species develop into other species. We theorize on the mechanism behind this.

Too many people think that "just a theory" is some scathing critique. That's as bad as them not believing in evolution. You can't understand science if you don't even know what the fundamental difference between fact and theory is.
Old 01-08-2008, 10:53 PM Gibonius is offline  
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#208  

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
Guys. I have some news for you.
Some scientifically evidenced fact.



Everything you see, at the most microscopic quantum level, is composed of two particles. Boson and Fermion.

Two Particles, Two Points, make everything in the known universe, this is a scientific fact.

Are any one of you 'intelligent scientific types' capable of explaining to me how postulating everything in the known universe, even the thoughts in your head, to be composed of Two Points is any less crazy than postulating everything in the known universe to be composed of One Point (God)?

I really don't see what the hell you guys are even talking about. Do you not realize that even science itself has nearly evidenced the existence of God? Ok it's evidenced the existence of Two Gods, Two Points, Two Particles the nature of and will of come to manifest everything in the known universe we see, think and experience.

Think people think. Postulating everything to be from ONE point is only 50% "crazier" than postulating everything to be of TWO points like Quantum Theory does.

And atleast IN MY OPINION, you need hardly even half a brain to notice that. We came from 270 molecules, to 3 atomic particles, to 2 quantum particles. What next? Oh I think there might just be "ONE" particle. It seems like a VERY logical extrapolation of this direction of studying the subatomic realm because the only place left to go after discovering TWO points govern is then discovering that ONE point governs all.

Please actually think about this. Throw off all your complications and and personal delusions running through your head and think about the simple fact that Science currently has EVIDENCED everything in the known universe, even the thoughts in your head, to be governed by the nature of TWO POINTS in space. Two Holographic Points, of which distance between them is technically non-existent at their subatomic level.

Seriously actually think about this. All you arguing this do you realize that the debate of GOD vs SCIENCE is actually nothing more than a debate of EVERYTHING IS COMPOSED OF ONE PARTICLE vs EVERYTHING IS COMPOSED OF TWO PARTICLES. You guys realize thats the only thing you have been arguing all these pages? Is Spirituality and Religion correct in postulating ONE that governs all, or is science and current quantum theory correct in postulating TWO governs all.

And then lets just connect another dot here cause I know some of you hate to do this on your own. All of evolution is governed by the nature of TWO PARTICLES, TWO POINTS IN SPACE by current evidenced scientific fact.

All religion says is evolution is governed by ONE PARTICLE.
Of course though they replaced 'evolution' with an oddly simplified story. But evolution is evolution no matter what.

You had to have been high when you came up with THIS little wonder.
Old 01-08-2008, 10:56 PM Gibonius is offline  
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#209  

cromicus
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that was actually hilarious to read
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:30 PM cromicus is offline  
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