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DivineStorm
I talk shit on the internet because in real life i'm a huge fucking pussy faggot
 
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America was not founded on Christian principles.

Instead it was entirely based on the natural law, ius naturale.
A fine example of this, is in the opening of the Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be selfevident: (...)"

Natural law is the law whose content is set by nature and that therefore has validity everywhere. It's as old as mankind, though the first records of it are, from who else, the ancient Greeks. Though its importance only became substantial when the Christian church started to incorporate the natural law into its own legislation (Corpus Iuris Canonici) during the Middle Ages. They even went as far as to claim that the natural law stood above all other laws, like the Corpus Iuris Civilis (which was still in effect in a lot of places as addition to local custom law) and that it was divine in nature.

Atleast until Hugo Grotius created quite the stir by saying "Even without a God, there would still be ius naturale".
This was a turning point and caused a seperation from the natural law and the holy church.

There's a lot more to it, you can imagine, but that's basically it. So there's a link between Christianity, natural law and the founding of America, but only a false one.



Aside from all of this, you have to understand that the founding 'fathers' of America lived in the Age of Reason. They all read and approved of Thomas Paine's pamphlets Common Sense and The Age of Reason, which had a great role in the American revolution. The nature of those pamphlets were exceptionally hostile towards organized religion as a political and moral force.

So no, the very very last thing America was founded on, were Christian principles.
Old 12-28-2007, 01:20 PM DivineStorm is offline  
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SnakeIRye
 
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Originally Posted by DivineStorm View Post
America was not founded on Christian principles.
...
So no, the very very last thing America was founded on, were Christian principles.

Thank you. My favorite example is from the Treaty of Tripoli 1796

"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;..."
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:19 PM SnakeIRye is offline  
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mike27
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I think that one of the biggest problems with the "evolution vs creation" debate is that the actual topic of discussion is unclear.

Ultimately, most people are creationists; our disagreement is simply about whether the universe came into existence few thousand years ago or whether it came into existence 14 billion years ago. The fact is, we can't prove it either way - the universe could very well have been created 10,000 years ago (or 100 years ago, for that matter).

The theory of evolution simply postulates that the diversity of living organisms can be attributed to incremental genetic mutations coupled with natural selection; it does not explain abiogenesis, nor does it explain the origin of the universe (which most people, when pressed, will attribute to some kind of higher power).

It seems to me that Ron Paul feels the way most people do - evolution does indeed explain the diversity of organisms, but some sort of higher power was involved in the creation of the universe and of life.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:30 PM mike27 is offline  
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SnakeIRye
 
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It seems to me that Ron Paul feels the way most people do - evolution does indeed explain the diversity of organisms, but some sort of higher power was involved in the creation of the universe and of life.

It seems to me RP believes what 40% of americans believe and that is the literal version of genesis. His position is very clear when he says, 'it's just a theory...' I wonder if doctor paul ever administered the vaccine for the ever evolving flu
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:48 PM SnakeIRye is offline  
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#79  

DSP_Junkie
 
that video makes me think less of him, being an atheist, but i still prefer his policies over the other candidates. honestly i could care less what he does in his spare time at church, as long as he fixes the economy and takes america out of the war then he can believe whatever he wants to believe.
Old 12-28-2007, 10:17 PM DSP_Junkie is offline  
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#80  

wingedbuttmonkey
 
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why does any of this even matter? If Ron Paul wants to believe in creationism, go for it. It doesn't affect his role in government one bit, nor should it. This is what separates Ron Paul from every other politician I have ever known and thats why I'm voting for him.
Old 12-28-2007, 10:30 PM wingedbuttmonkey is offline  
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DSP_Junkie
 
he is a doctor, a man of science, who doesn't believe in evolution. that just hurts my mind. like you said however, his political views are the only thing that count and he is leaps and bounds above everyone else.

however, if this was any other candidate i'm sure genmay would shit on him.
Old 12-28-2007, 10:42 PM DSP_Junkie is offline  
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Trachei
 
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Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
His supporters won't care, half of them are religious fundamentalists and the others will just shout about STATES RIGHTS to teach evolution without actually thinking through whether that's a good solution or not.

Evolution is a fact as far as anything can be determined to be a fact, it's really sad that in the year 2007 a majority of Americans still believe it's .

looks like it worked so far. Kansas and Florida schools got STOMPED by voters when school boards tried to shove creationism down their throats. The simple fact is that it is INCREDIBLY hard to argue against states rights in SIMPLE matters such as these. The federal government should have no role in this because voters already know it's fucking retarded and they voiced their opinions to school boards, whom they should be talking to, not the fucking President of the United States. OMG McDonalds cheated me out of cheese on my burger, get me the President of the United States!!!!!!!! OMG McDonalds is too fattening, get me the President of the United States!!!!! OMG the school wants to teach something I don't like, I won't talk to them, get me the President of the United States!!!!!!!!! OMG we're being invaded, ok for real, get me the President of the United States!

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Old 12-29-2007, 02:42 AM Trachei is offline  
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#83  

ry_goody
 
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Both your and 's posts were very good ones.

thank you
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:51 AM ry_goody is offline  
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#84  

slicedoranges
I'M A COCKSUCKER, JUST GIVE ME A CHANCE & I'LL SUCK YOUR'S DRY
 
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EVOLUTION HAS NO EVIDENCE
DARWIN WAS A DRUNK AND REPENTED HIS LIFE WORK ON HIS DEATHBED
EXCUSE ME WHILE I BOMB AN ABORTION CLINIC

PS: YOU AETHIEST ARE FUCKING STUPID

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Old 12-29-2007, 12:47 PM slicedoranges is offline  
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#85  

Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike27 View Post
I think that one of the biggest problems with the "evolution vs creation" debate is that the actual topic of discussion is unclear.

Ultimately, most people are creationists; our disagreement is simply about whether the universe came into existence few thousand years ago or whether it came into existence 14 billion years ago. The fact is, we can't prove it either way - the universe could very well have been created 10,000 years ago (or 100 years ago, for that matter).

The theory of evolution simply postulates that the diversity of living organisms can be attributed to incremental genetic mutations coupled with natural selection; it does not explain abiogenesis, nor does it explain the origin of the universe (which most people, when pressed, will attribute to some kind of higher power).

It seems to me that Ron Paul feels the way most people do - evolution does indeed explain the diversity of organisms, but some sort of higher power was involved in the creation of the universe and of life.



mike27
overnight evolutionary apologist for a good cause
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Old 12-29-2007, 01:28 PM Straw Man is offline  
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cromicus
I act tough on genmay, but real life im a pussy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike27 View Post
It seems to me that Ron Paul feels the way most people do - evolution does indeed explain the diversity of organisms, but some sort of higher power was involved in the creation of the universe and of life.
And there is no reason to believe this and plenty of reason not to believe it.
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Old 12-29-2007, 01:38 PM cromicus is offline  
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slicedoranges
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Quote:
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And there is no reason to believe this and plenty of reason not to believe it.

There are reasons to believe it, but none are logical.
Old 12-29-2007, 01:43 PM slicedoranges is offline  
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cromicus
I act tough on genmay, but real life im a pussy
 
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There are reasons to believe it, but none are logical.
I don't consider illogical things to be reasons.
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Old 12-29-2007, 01:48 PM cromicus is offline  
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:ninja:
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
equality amongst all men, which is a Christian teaching
Have you ever read the Bible?
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