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Junkie Mod
totensiebush
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kristchan
blog or DEA
I just mean a real source for the statistics they gave
Old 05-06-2006, 03:08 PM Junkie Mod is offline  
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Ray Charles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner Mod
I just mean a real source for the statistics they gave

Check the footnotes in that article?
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Old 05-07-2006, 09:07 PM Ray Charles is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner Mod
I'd like to see a real source, the DEA isn't exactly a good one.


You can't denounce the studies because they don't agree with your perspective.

If you doubt the claims, I urge you to go to the Netherlands and see for yourself.

This thread isn't about whether or not drug use is ok, at high levels or diminishing.

This thread is about the motives and reasons for legality.
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Old 05-08-2006, 05:00 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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drunk neck joe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey
You can't denounce the studies because they don't agree with your perspective.

If you doubt the claims, I urge you to go to the Netherlands and see for yourself.

This thread isn't about whether or not drug use is ok, at high levels or diminishing.

This thread is about the motives and reasons for legality.
I was in Amsterdam this past summer and it wasn't too bad.
Old 05-08-2006, 05:52 PM drunk neck joe is offline  
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#439  

pyramid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kristchan
Myth: Legalization of marijuana in other countries has been a success.

Reality: Liberalization of drug laws in other countries has often resulted in higher use of dangerous drugs. Over the past decade, drug policy in some foreign countries, particularly those in Europe, has gone through some dramatic changes toward greater liberalization with failed results. Consider the experience of the Netherlands, where the government reconsidered its legalization measures in light of that country's experience. After marijuana use became legal, consumption nearly tripled among 18- to 20-year-olds. As awareness of the harm of marijuana grew, the number of cannabis coffeehouses in the Netherlands decreased 36 percent in six years. Almost all Dutch towns have a cannabis policy, and 73 percent of them have a no-tolerance policy toward the coffeehouses.

In 1987 Swiss officials permitted drug use and sales in a Zurich park, which was soon dubbed Needle Park, and Switzerland became a magnet for drug users the world over. Within five years, the number of regular drug users at the park had reportedly swelled from a few hundred to 20,000. The area around the park became crime-ridden to the point that the park had to be shut down and the experiment terminated.

Marijuana use by Canadian teenagers is at a 25-year peak in the wake of an aggressive decriminalization movement. At the very time a decriminalization bill was before the House of Commons, the Canadian government released a report showing that marijuana smoking among teens is "at levels that we haven't seen since the late '70s when rates reached their peak." After a large decline in the 1980s, marijuana use among teens increased during the 1990s, as young people apparently became "confused about the state of federal pot laws."





/thread?


Lol, it's easy to win arguments if you outright lie. The DEA is not a reputable source in this matter, but don't take my word for it. They will say anything they damn well please because they expect you to believe them and not check their facts. Checking their facts is all one needs to do in order to spot their .

Yeah, the needle park experiment was a failure but not all drug liberalization was a failure and these countries are not abandoning their efforts to seek other ways of dealing with drugs than harsh prison sentences for users. That is an outright lie.

The main problem the netherlands has is complaints from their neighbors about drug tourism. The rates of use of marijuana in the netherlands ARE LOWER THAN IN THE USA. If I understand the problem correctly the dutch are under constant pressure from outside to change their lenient policy toward marijuana even though since 1976 there have been reletively few problems associated with them.

Drug use estimates:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/druguse.htm
Safe injection sites:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/scfsif.htm
Needle exchange:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/syringee.htm
The Netherlands:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm

The rates of use in canada are not really any different than our own and are not a result of lenient laws. If so then why are our rates of use so high? As of yet canada has not really even changed their laws. This is the real sham, the DEA is suggesting that JUST TALKING ABOUT DECRIM caused canadian marijuana use to skyrocket. They don't even want decrim talked about openly because according to them that will make kids want to smoke weed. They are desperate and they see their empire of lies crumbling around them.


You know what actually does make kids more likely to smoke weed? The DEA and their stupid anti-marijuana ads.
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5556
Dont want to believe norml? Try these on for size:
science direct
http://www.nida.nih.gov/DESPR/Westat/

Feel like telling the government how you feel about this? http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/a...PAds-051706-aa

Lol, that DEA page is a joke: http://www.dea.gov/pubs/pressrel/pr042605.html
They should just call that the myth perpetuation page. Most of the tripe on their has been debunked or explained away before.

Here is the cliffs version of that:

Quote:
Myth: Marijuana is medicine.
Reality: The active ingredients in marijuana are already being used in medecines and have been for some time.

Quote:
Myth: Legalization of marijuana in other countries has been a success.
Reality: MARIJUANA IS NOT LEGAL ANYWHERE. The closest you can get is the netherlands where it is tolerated but STILL ILLEGAL.

Quote:
Myth: Marijuana is harmless.
Reality: It's not harmless but compared to other legal drugs marijuana is uniquely benign in its ability to harm humans. Of the ~26,000 people you claim died of drug use in a given year ZERO of them died from smoking marijuana alone. The same number that dies from smoking marijuana alone every year.

Quote:
Myth: Smoking marijuana harms only the smokers.
lol, second hand smoke? hahaha

How about second hand drunk drivers? How about the fact that nearly half of all fatal traffic crashes EVERY YEAR are alcohol related. Why doesn't alcohol need to be illegal to save us from that?

Oh you want to use monitoring the future to prove your point eh? good. Everyone go look at monitoring the future and look at the exact stats they suggest (TABLE1). Then tell me what trend you notice. Did marijuana use drop significantly at any time recently or has ~50% of every highschool class graduated already having tried it since 1975? Go ahead and check, I'll wait.

OK, Back? Now if those stats weren't bad enough understand that even monitoring the future is UNDERREPORTED.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...1.2006.00081.x

Quote:
Help Spread the Truth about Marijuana
Indeed. THE MOST DANGEROUS THING ABOUT MARIJUANA IS THE FACT THAT IT IS ILLEGAL.

Quote:
"Quite possibly, the media campaign aimed at marijuana use that has been undertaken by ONDCP, in collaboration with the Partnership for a Drug Free America, has been having its intended effect," University of Michigan researcher Lloyd Johnston, the study's principal investigator, said.
Notice how they quoted someone else postulating that notion instead of saying that outright themselves. That's how you know that they know that is an outright lie. If they had said it was true themselves then they would have been caught in a lie. If they quote someone else saying maybe that is true then they are in the clear.

Quote:
Spread the truth. Join with your community leaders. Clear the smokescreen by educating the children, parents, teachers, physicians, and legislators in your community before the myths kill any more
Indeed. Prohibition is destroying us and the people most often affected by prohibition are the young people. They are most likely to be killed, arrested, or harmed for life by our own bad policies. We've been pursuing the same policies for most of a century now and this is where prohibition has gotten us. Drugs are everywhere and every year we send more of our own to prison under the misguided notion that prohibition is working. Even if it's not time for outright legalization it IS time for open and honest debate about our policees and their actual effects. Currently however, the government is unwilling to even discuss anything besides more prohibition. They don't even want a debate. That should tell you something right there.

Need even more?
Try this on for size: http://www.mpp.org/adolescents.html

CA Prop 36, Improving Lives, Delivering Results: http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/Prop360306.cfm

Bonus:
But what about that gateway theory again: http://www.springerlink.com/link.asp...n1j1w6158xt202
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Last edited by pyramid; 05-17-2006 at 02:04 PM..
Old 05-17-2006, 01:52 PM pyramid is offline  
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#440  

Galactus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRasch
Lets compare the three most common used recreational drugs used in the United States, alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana. Alcohol accounts for 50,000 deaths a year, and tobacco accounts for 440,000. There is no one in history died from overdosing on marijuana It's simply not toxic enough, it could not kill.

If we made dugs legal:

We would have fewer victimless criminals clogging our prisons.
The courts, police, and lawyers would have time to deal with real crimes.
We take away the huge black market profits from the bad guys.
We would be able to ease some suffering.
We can reduce the transmission of HIV and Hepatitis.
We control the quality and dosages so less people would get sick through contamination and overdose.

440,000 people a year die from smoking cigarettes? Surely, that's not possible.
Old 05-19-2006, 06:44 PM Galactus is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Charles
Interesting, where's that come from?


someones ass
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Old 05-19-2006, 09:24 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#442  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie Mod
I'd like to see a real source, the DEA isn't exactly a good one.


sadly neither is the CDC
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Old 05-19-2006, 09:25 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#443  

pyramid
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Causes of death from various sources:

Various years:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

2000:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...ct/291/10/1238

With breakdown by age:
http://www.disastercenter.com/cdc/

For people too lazy to click:



sorry if you don't like the CDC...
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Last edited by pyramid; 05-20-2006 at 03:47 AM..
Old 05-20-2006, 03:45 AM pyramid is offline  
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#444  

mcovey
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I was drawing up a list of conditions that I think most people would agree on for it to be legal, and we are going to have it published as part of a poll here in NH, in several different newspapers:

Over 21
No advertizing
Must be kept behind the counter
No smoking it in public, or around children (edibles is ok)
Public intoxication... I guess would be ok if you didn't cause a disturbance, could be a secondary offense
No driving within x hours of use (depending on g/hour)
Penalties for providing it to minors
Must be grown in-state (otherwise it would break federal law to sell it)
Growth would be inspected by state agents, kept clean and safe
Taxed at a rate prescribed by law
Employers can discriminate against users when hiring, continue with tests
May not be brought out of state (again, federal law)
Packaging must contain warnings about risks of irresponsibility
May not be sold in "candy" or soft drink format, to avoid attraction to minors (not illegal to do that yourself, though), but other forms like hash or oil are ok.


And this from my 2 time Bush-voting ex cop father (he was on 20 years, retired as a sergeant): Alcohol is worse than marijuana, hands down, MJ should be legal on those conditions, since the MJ aspect of the drug war would completely end.
Old 05-20-2006, 04:35 AM mcovey is offline  
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#445  

electric!sheep
 
WTF? Suicide in 5-9 year olds?
Old 05-20-2006, 07:59 AM electric!sheep is offline  
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#446  

CRasch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactus
440,000 people a year die from smoking cigarettes? Surely, that's not possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid
Causes of death from various sources:

Various years:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

2000:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...ct/291/10/1238

With breakdown by age:
http://www.disastercenter.com/cdc/

For people too lazy to click:

[img]http://www.pyramid-tech.net/images/drugwar/top20causesofdeath1999-2001.png[img]

sorry if you don't like the CDC...
Thx pyramid, for backing up my claim with sources.
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Last edited by CRasch; 05-20-2006 at 09:00 PM..
Old 05-20-2006, 08:57 PM CRasch is offline  
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#447  

pyramid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electric!sheep
WTF? Suicide in 5-9 year olds?
Yeah, WTF? Who's life is that messed up that young?

Also, it seems that those of us who manage to not accidentally kill ourselves by ~40 can look forward to getting cancer or having a heart attack/heart failure.


Yeah, that looks pretty good mcovey. About advertizing I had suggested that all adult only items should/could be advertized in adult only rated media if they still want/need to advertize. I think we could live without that but that would be a major point of contention for many companies. Also, I think adult only companies should stilll be allowed to sponsor sporting and other all ages events even if they can't advertize their wares there. That sponsor money makes things happen. I would even be down with having marijuana sold only in specialty shops like in amsterdam to keep it seperated.

I think adults should be able to grow their own supply too. I think if people grew their own that could make it even harder for minors to get their hands on it as you could just sell seeds which are at least several months from even being a useable drug. Adults who grow and have kids would need to be mindful but only about as much as parents with a liquor collection. Also, as much as I think it should be kept away from minors, I think when minors are found in possession it should be handled much like a Minor in Possession of alcohol is handled now. Not really that big a deal. A ticket, a ride home, and a talking to the parents. I think many cops may handle kids with small amounts that way now anyway.

Quote:
Thx pyramid, for backing up my claim with sources
No problem.
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Last edited by pyramid; 05-20-2006 at 10:03 PM..
Old 05-20-2006, 09:58 PM pyramid is offline  
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#448  

Gonorrherpesyphilis
 
Mary J. should be legal because there has not been a good reason to show otherwise.
Old 05-22-2006, 05:32 PM Gonorrherpesyphilis is offline  
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#449  

pyramid
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Wow, I can't believe I missed this report but here's yet another source and this one serves up some serious ownage and even some some reports I wasn't even aware of. Slightly dated but still piping hot:

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter...6275&pID=36272

I <3 Silja J.A. Talvi

Reports/Studies cited:

http://www.justicepolicy.org/article...=type&type=109
http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/94/5/836

From the second link:
Quote:
Objectives. We tested the premise that punishment for cannabis use deters use and thereby benefits public health.

Results. With the exception of higher drug use in San Francisco, we found strong similarities across both cities. We found no evidence to support claims that criminalization reduces use or that decriminalization increases use.

Conclusions. Drug policies may have less impact on cannabis use than is currently thought.
If that ain't it in a nutshell then I don't know what is.

Awesome stuff here folks.
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Old 05-31-2006, 05:37 AM pyramid is offline  
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