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Stereodude
 
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There probably isn't just one SHTF rifle. Right after the SHTF you might want something for home defense, after a while you might to focus more on hunting capability. It also depends where you live. In a city you might need to focus on defense. Out in the sticks you might never need to focus on defense.
Old 06-06-2009, 10:12 AM Stereodude is offline  
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Social Misfit
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Originally Posted by Tab_diagonal View Post
I have ~3000 rds of FMJ 30-06, ~2500 rds of FMJ 9mm, about
400rds of JHP 9mm, about 100 rds of #8 birdshot for the
shotty.

I think I'm pretty much set, but I need more shotty ammo,
working on that.

Altho, the 30-06 alone can last me a while, as I don't plan on
killing anything with more than 3 rounds.


edit: I need more 00 ammo for the shotgun, I have like a box of 5-6 rds, its pathetic.

Have you ever actually tried lugging around more than 500 rounds of that? I have an old army ammo container that I keep about 600 rounds of .45 in, that mofo is fucking heavy. If a SHTF situation occurs i'm taking about 300 rounds of .45 and all the .22 I can carry. You have fun lugging 3000 rounds of 30-06, and enjoy your future back problems.
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:17 PM Social Misfit is offline  
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SmashingPumpkins
 
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ammo availability and weight make the 22 better than your m1

anywhere you can get .22 you can get 30-06 (or 308 if you got that version)

the bayonette is handy and you can use the butt of the gun, a 22 would break.

long range stopping power is king in the woods, if you want to eat rabbit go ahead and get a .22 but if you want any decent sized game get a real gun
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:53 PM SmashingPumpkins is offline  
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GuNsL!NgEr
 
im getting too old for this shit.

how about the ol ruger 10/22.ive got one on the shopping list as a spare rifle.its good to have around for the wife or girlfriend.not as scarey as my entry tac rra.certainly o n a budget its a very nice rifle and inexpensive.
Old 06-06-2009, 01:55 PM GuNsL!NgEr is offline  
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Originally Posted by SmashingPumpkins View Post
anywhere you can get .22 you can get 30-06 (or 308 if you got that version)

the bayonette is handy and you can use the butt of the gun, a 22 would break.

long range stopping power is king in the woods, if you want to eat rabbit go ahead and get a .22 but if you want any decent sized game get a real gun

remember you're scavenging for ammo, you're bound to come across far more 22 ammo than anything else, plus it's far easier to carry lots of. I don't know why you need a bayonette when a decent pocket knife will server all your gutting/skinning/cleaning/cutting needs. and I don't know what you're planning on using the but of your gun for but a 22's stock with pound tent stakes with the best of them.

also living in the wilderness with small portable shelter or something similar, a true shit hitting the fan scenario where you have no structure to go to, you're not going to be hunting large game, it will spoil before you can use it and it's too much work to be an effective source of food. you will be hunting small game and birds and the like.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:02 PM g0rg0n is offline  
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pyramid
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
There are a few other differences like the ability to be fired underwater, or while very wet.

I figured HK probably has some beefier parts thrown in as well but I thought that capability was primarily a result of the gas piston system because you don't have to worry about the crazy overpressure of trying to fire completely underwater or with a partially blocked barrel being directed all the way back to your gas key/BCG/etc. The gas piston setups I'm familiar with usually vent the extra pressure at the gas block or gas tube once the piston has moved far enough to operate the bolt.

Not sure if that is correct, but that's what I was thinking.
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Last edited by pyramid; 06-06-2009 at 07:19 PM..
Old 06-06-2009, 03:06 PM pyramid is offline  
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Azralia
 
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Personally I'll be taking my ARs. Good enough to stop pretty much anything I'm worried about running into and I have two so spare parts are a cinch. Also, the only major difference I'm aware of between an AR and an HK416 is that the 416 uses a gas piston system instead of direct gas impingement.

Here are ARs which have been converted to gas piston systems:

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

Forgive my questions (I haven't gotten into ARs yet, just finished my AK collection!)

So do the gas piston conversion systems replace the spring system in the gun? If I remember right from shooting an AR awhile ago, it had a massive spring in it that made loud sounds whenever firing it.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:58 AM Azralia is offline  
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#67  

Caelum
 
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Forgive my questions (I haven't gotten into ARs yet, just finished my AK collection!)

So do the gas piston conversion systems replace the spring system in the gun? If I remember right from shooting an AR awhile ago, it had a massive spring in it that made loud sounds whenever firing it.

No, the spring is the buffer and its in the butt stock. It reduces recoil and pushes the bolt forward to chamber the next round. And if you heard it really loudly...like over the round, the buffer tube needs to be cleaned out MADLY and wipe off the spring. Shouldnt really make that much noise

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


This video isnt particularly about the piston system but at about 1:05 he talks about how it works.
Formerly the gas came back into the chamber and directly moved the bolt back into the buffer. Imagine blowing down a straw to move something at the end of the straw. All the shit that was in your mouth is now on that object being moved. In the AR's case. It's carbon and hot gas. Dirty as hell.
The ak uses a gas piston system
Old 06-08-2009, 08:47 AM Caelum is offline  
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#68  

GuNsL!NgEr
 
ar15

why are we even talking about dgi vs piston?yep pistons are cool and make a ar15 run clean but if you have proper training aka read on how to properly clean a ar15 based system then its really a ridiculous thing.dgi ar15's are more accurate than piston ar's so far.not to say they wont catch up techologically but just learning to properly clean the dgi system goes a long way with increasing its reliability.in my opinion the ak47 has reliability and if you want a rifle that goes bang and will hit a pumpkin at 100yds the ak47 is for you.if you want a rifle that accurately hits a tennis ball at 100yds then take the ar15 but learn its ways.also keep in mind almost all 7.62x39 isnt made in the usa.so its wise to get a 5.56mm rated ak47 style rifle unless you have access to a cache of 7.62x39.it will dry up fast.
Old 06-08-2009, 09:35 AM GuNsL!NgEr is offline  
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#69  

Caelum
 
Gorgon I'm with you. .22 all the way. ar7 of perhaps even a full rifle. But I would take that for food for sure. There was an article in field and stream about .22 pistols for trail guns vs bigger caliber and the .22 just has more pro's than cons.
Yes you might not kill someone you come against, but the likelihood of you starving to death is probably just as threatening or more so than someone coming after you.
Plus, I'd be willing to bet, there are fewer people who own guns than dont own them. So youre chances are higher of running into someone who doesnt have a gun and as scared as people are of guns now, when theyre not all open carry and such I think the average run of the mil dude is going to be scared a little more than shitless when he sees anyone with a gun and he doesnt have one.

But yeah, AR7 in the bugout and AR15 on the shoulder. I carried 216 rounds of 556 in iraq and its pretty heavy, but 216 rounds of .22 lol lol lol lol. I just bought 1100 rounds on Friday, weight I'd say around 10-20 lbs. 1100 rounds of 556...shit...just some quick math and its around 60lbs...
The ar15 will be for the real OH SHIT.....but the .22 for oh shit, i'm hungry. Going to go grab me some rabbit

edit: rambly
Oh and to the guy who said garand
M1 garand...13.2 pounds (8 rounds) 43.6" long
M4 fully loaded 6.9 pounds (30 rounds) 29.8" long
Seems like an easy decision to me
At least say an m14...same weapon basically as the garand but ya know...better. And you can get them with composite stocks and bring the weight down to closer to 10lbs.
But still, if youve never carried something that weighs that much for a LOOOOOOONG time, you dont really realize how heavy that shit gets. I carried and m16a2 my first deployment and m16a4 for the second. The difference is around a pound to the a4 and you can tell after a couple of hours of walking....sucks

Last edited by Caelum; 06-08-2009 at 10:02 AM..
Old 06-08-2009, 09:55 AM Caelum is offline  
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Mr. Greg
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Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
No, the spring is the buffer and its in the butt stock. It reduces recoil and pushes the bolt forward to chamber the next round. And if you heard it really loudly...like over the round, the buffer tube needs to be cleaned out MADLY and wipe off the spring. Shouldnt really make that much noise

My buffer spring makes more report than the sounds from the firing mechanism/bullet too, but I can guarantee you that my buffer tube is functioning perfectly.

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Old 06-08-2009, 10:07 AM Mr. Greg is offline  
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Caelum
 
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My buffer spring makes more report than the sounds from the firing mechanism/bullet too, but I can guarantee you that my buffer tube is functioning perfectly.


Fine, fine :P
After I typed that I thought maybe it was the earplugs. I hear the buffer more when I have my earplugs in it seems.
Old 06-08-2009, 10:40 AM Caelum is offline  
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Mr. Greg
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Fine, fine :P
After I typed that I thought maybe it was the earplugs. I hear the buffer more when I have my earplugs in it seems.

Well, my reason has nothing to do with earplugs (Exactly the opposite of earplgs, actually).
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:59 AM Mr. Greg is offline  
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pyramid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azralia View Post
So do the gas piston conversion systems replace the spring system in the gun? If I remember right from shooting an AR awhile ago, it had a massive spring in it that made loud sounds whenever firing it.

Nope they replace the gas tube at the front of firearm with a spring and piston that make the gun function more like an AK. Yeah, that buffer spring in the stock really makes some noise. I recently got a hydraulic buffer because I heard it lessened some of the spring twang. It didn't seem to do anything about the twang but it did seem to help a little with the recoil. I don't know about the problem being dirt either, I can hear the spring twanging away with a freshly cleaned and oiled gun.

Here is another video explanation of what is going on:
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

Around the middle or so they have a cutaway video animation of the two systems and how they operate.

And here is an instruction sheet with diagrams so you can see exactly what changes are made:
http://www.bushmaster.com/faqs/attac...Kit%20Demo.pdf

The gas piston replaces the gas tube which is part #3 in this diagram:
http://www.ar15products.net/att333.gif
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Last edited by pyramid; 06-08-2009 at 06:17 PM..
Old 06-08-2009, 06:05 PM pyramid is offline  
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#74  

zsu2357
 
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
There probably isn't just one SHTF rifle. Right after the SHTF you might want something for home defense, after a while you might to focus more on hunting capability. It also depends where you live. In a city you might need to focus on defense. Out in the sticks you might never need to focus on defense.
In the real deal SHTF where do you think a lot of city people are gonna head when the food starts running low in city's.They will head for the boonie's looking for it,beg borrow or steal,be prepared to defend your self and family.
Old 06-08-2009, 07:24 PM zsu2357 is offline  
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