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terrabyte
I'll suck any cock as long as it's liberal cock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xagent
fucking damnit, how many times do I have to go through this. Under fascism businesses were under tight regulation of the government, and were effectively government owned. Highly taxed, regulated, subsidized, Social Security, gun control, protectionism, public work creation programs... Their economies were managed and planned under the superviision of the government - everything from wages to production. How is any of this far to the right?

Under fascism, businesses and the government were anything but completely separated, which would be laissez faire capitalism

Nazism/fascism is just left of center economically, and authoritarian politically. And please don't say authoritarian = right wing.

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/poli...remeright.html (political compass.org)


You obviously haven't taken a government class, because there isn't a single professor that will entertain your ignorant claims. The only thing you're basing your assertions on are the economic side, which are vacuous anyway, without even bothing to consider the social aspect of Hitler's society. Hitler was a fervent militarist, who believed in loyalty and a strong sense of nationalism. His prejudiced ideology entailed the systematic slaughtering of millions of jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and mentally deficient people. To provide a sense of legitimacy to his policies, he would use religion and demonstrate how God was with him and his country and supported his violent, tyrannical rule. Modern day Conservatives, while obviously not as extreme, place great emphasis on religion. They believe in nationalism, a strong military, and are prejudiced against those they believe will threaten their traditions.

You claim that under the Nazi regime, all corporations were under complete and total government control, but that isn't necessarily true, as the Nazi Charter of Labor provided employers with the power to do with the workers as they pleased. The employers, in turn, were controlled by the members of the Nazi elite, so if anything, Germany's economic policies resembled more of an integration between capitalistic and plutocratic methodologies. It's apparent you don't know what you're talking about, because in a socialist/communist society, the means of production are controlled by the people. In this case, that was hardly the truth, and therefore, your contention fails based upon the fact that it does not comply with the basic definitions of government.

Oh, and by the way, I loved how you quoted politicalcompass.org, becuase that's exactly what I was going to do to support my claims.



Sorry, but your source actually proves my argument. You lose, dumbass!
Old 07-14-2004, 02:17 PM terrabyte is offline  
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terrabyte
I'll suck any cock as long as it's liberal cock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by /-\lex
No, not even close.

Another ignorant fool.
Old 07-14-2004, 02:18 PM terrabyte is offline  
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ATP
 
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When I first took the test on the political compass website, I was always around Ghandi and Mandela. I took it again recently, and now I'm even moar libertarian and leftist than before. Of course, you can't really say that the test is 100% accurate, but still...

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Old 07-14-2004, 02:38 PM ATP is offline  
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/-\lex
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrabyte
Another ignorant fool.

Yeah sure, atleast I know what im talking about.

fascism is a form of socialism.
Old 07-14-2004, 02:55 PM /-\lex is offline  
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#19  

Free_Willy
 
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heres where I stand for the record if anyone here gives a shit:



EDIT: heh left Libertarian.
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Old 07-14-2004, 03:30 PM Free_Willy is offline  
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#20  

Unkle_eskobar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by plex
I know so much but so little about liberalism.

Think watered down communism, thrown in some socialist and marxist ideas, and you're half way there.
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Old 07-14-2004, 03:31 PM Unkle_eskobar is offline  
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#21  

terrabyte
I'll suck any cock as long as it's liberal cock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by /-\lex
Yeah sure, atleast I know what im talking about.

So, you're ignorant, but at least you know what you're talking about?

Old 07-14-2004, 04:19 PM terrabyte is offline  
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#22  

Simon K
 
Liberalism in its widest sense means a certain tolerance. A tolerance for what seems to be the question.
In the "classical" sense of liberalism as it first occured in the 18th century and continued towards the early 20th, liberalism referred to a laissez-faire philosophy in both social matters and (far more prevalently) economic ones (read: extreme capitalism). People prefer to call this definition "libertarian."
Liberalism today is no different, I would like to say, insofar as its meaning hasn't been perverted by the American Right. This perverted meaning attached particularly in the Reagan/Thatcher years I would prefer to refer to as a definition of "Leftist" ideology rather than as of liberalism, a word of far greater importance and function (mudslinging ammunition for socially conservative Republicans) than its supposed definition today.
Many people lack an education broad enough to know what liberalism was, and now find themselves believing it has some reference to socialism. It doesn't. But "social" liberals, it should be noted, are rarely economic ones today, insofar that they support a good degree of protectionism and domestic equalization (principles that are very much socialist ones). Vice versa with economic liberals (typically on the Right).
Popular media outlets seem to have distorted the word. I prefer to avoid use of it and to rather refer to the five, in my opinion, acceptable ideologies of reference:
-the Left
-the Right
-Libertarianism
-Authoritarianism
As has been noted above, all governments, past and present, can be superimposed onto a dual-axis graph, the Nolan Chart as it is commonly called, to represent their ideological positions.
Liberalism, as I see it, can only be mentioned fairly in the following contexts:
-referring to history
-referring to economic liberalism
-referring to social issues
A "general definition" simply does not exist further than one you may find in the Oxford English Dictionary.
Old 07-14-2004, 06:46 PM  
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#23  

xagent
 
Here is a good site that explains what modern day liberalism is all about, a front for far-left communists: http://www.friesian.com/rand.htm#modern

Some tenets of liberalism:

- political correctness
- racial quotas
- nationalized medicine
- child protective services
- minimum wage
- speech codes
- suppression of religion
- rent controls
- community service
- government price fixing for the latest flavor of the week industry
- abridging property rights
- animal rights
- farm subsidies
- anti-business
- moral relativity
- multiculturalism
- wealth redistribution
- anti-gun ownership

support 3 or more of those, and chances are, you're probably a liberal
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:46 PM xagent is offline  
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jubjub
TweedleDumber
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon K
Popular media outlets seem to have distorted the word. I prefer to avoid use of it and to rather refer to the five, in my opinion, acceptable ideologies of reference:
-the Left
-the Right
-Libertarianism
-Authoritarianism

in my opinion , your post seems to be missing the fifth point of acceptable ideologic referance.

please expand.
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Old 07-14-2004, 08:14 PM jubjub is offline  
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#25  

Simon K
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xagent
Here is a good site that explains what modern day liberalism is all about, a front for far-left communists: http://www.friesian.com/rand.htm#modern

Some tenets of liberalism:

- political correctness
- racial quotas
- nationalized medicine
- child protective services
- minimum wage
- speech codes
- suppression of religion
- rent controls
- community service
- government price fixing for the latest flavor of the week industry
- abridging property rights
- animal rights
- farm subsidies
- anti-business
- moral relativity
- multiculturalism
- wealth redistribution
- anti-gun ownership

support 3 or more of those, and chances are, you're probably a liberal

Again, here we see "liberal" interchangable with "Leftist."
That article was entertaining. Very anti-communist... I liked the rats. They were cute.
Old 07-14-2004, 08:47 PM  
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#26  

Simon K
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jubjub
in my opinion , your post seems to be missing the fifth point of acceptable ideologic referance.

please expand.
Oh, yes. Probably because it's not an ideology at all...
I was probably intending to refer to the Nolan Chart's "centrist" area. Of course, I'm alluding to a model similar to the Political Compass.
Actually, my mistake. I should have only said four. Nothing can be said to be distinctly centrist independently of reffering to right-left, authoritarian-libertarian ideologies... http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

Last edited by Simon K; 07-14-2004 at 08:58 PM..
Old 07-14-2004, 08:53 PM  
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#27  

xagent
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon K
Again, here we see "liberal" interchangable with "Leftist."
That article was entertaining. Very anti-communist... I liked the rats. They were cute.

I suggest you check out that site, http://www.friesian.com

It's run by some Philosophy professor at a college in Los Angeles and ran as a Libertarian for some office

He has a TON of much more in-depth (stuff that goes way over my head) essays, on philosophy, economics, politics, history: http://www.friesian.com/#contents

The past week I've just been reading his essays and papers in the Epistemology and Political Economy section... I haven't even visted Cato once in the past week
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Old 07-14-2004, 09:03 PM xagent is offline  
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/-\lex
 
LOL cato
Old 07-14-2004, 09:51 PM /-\lex is offline  
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#29  

plex
 
I think I'm a moderate because I agree with both sides on some issues but at the same time, I can swing both ways on some issues,

I agree that healthcare should be free to a point. If you make it free, then there is really no point for a drug company to invest billions into making new drugs if they won't profit off of it. They are in business to profit. It should be free because not everyone is born a millionaire or can afford decent healthcare or major surgeries. Government should pitch in a little but in today's world, no one will donate their money if they don't benefit. That's life.

Wealth redistribution, I disagree with this. I say, if a person works their ass off and makes it in this world, then they are entitled to the benefits. But, if a person didn't do jack shit and got rich by doing nothing or profiting off their parent's, then fuck them.

Animal control, I tend to disagree and agree with this. Natives and such should be allowed to hunt animals because that's there way of life but at the same time, we should save some animals from being extinct of the face of the Earth.

Speaking of Natives, I completely disagree with free healthcare for Natives. I'm sorry, yes, we took this land from them but we were the ones with the guns. Don't see the French asking for free healthcare from Germany.

Religion... arrgh. Please, I don't want to see your religion elements in public. You can practice whatever you want but please, keep it to yourself.

Gay marriage, could careless. If two people want to get married, why should we get in the way? Not my job to make up your mind when it comes to love.

I believe it was the Green Party that believes in anti-tariffs. I remember getting into an argument with some recruiter about this. They believe there shouldn't be. I totally disagree with this. If there are no tariffs, then some jackass in China will build products for a fraction of the cost and flood our markets with them. That eliminates jobs here. Already happening though :P

It seems to me that Democrats are favored by the lower class/lower middle class while Republicans are favored by the upper middle class/upper class. Then again, only reason Democrats even give a damn about the lower classes (most are from the upper class, if not all) is because it's an easy way to get into office going after the other spectrum one party doesn't care about.
Old 07-15-2004, 03:20 AM plex is offline  
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