General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straw Man View Post
I did not, shut the fuck up. What I did say though, is that saying "legalizing this and that leads to less crime" is stupid as an argument without anything else. First of all, it's redundant, for starters.
Perhaps you should stick to making shitty gimmick threads.


you certainly fucking did

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straw Man View Post
Sigh. No. You know what, we can stop all crime from happening by decriminalizing the whole damn book. There, no crime!

Now I perhaps even support legalization, on the premise that you should be allowed to get fucking high like a kite. Yes, thats right.
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323
Old 12-04-2006, 11:43 PM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#496  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
you certainly fucking did

Nowhere there, does it say rape, or murder. It's simply saying arguing redundantly that decriminalizing something of course leads to less crime (...whoop de doo, who would have guessed that?). Well you fucking mongoloid, that applies to every crime in the fucking book. Of course it would lead to less crime, it wouldn't be a fucking crime anymore retard DUH
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 12-05-2006, 03:31 AM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#497  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turd sculptor View Post
your ability to explain your reasoning is truly mind blowing

That's what you're saying. Decriminalize this and that for less crime. Sure thing:

http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...riminalization

What a compelling and mindboggling argument. Let's apply this to everything for even less crime. Fuck, let's have a crimeless society simply because YOU like to get fucked up, and use shoddy arguments to defend this.
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 12-05-2006, 03:34 AM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#498  

ry_goody
 
ry_goody's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straw Man View Post
That's what you're saying. Decriminalize this and that for less crime. Sure thing:

http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...riminalization

What a compelling and mindboggling argument. Let's apply this to everything for even less crime. Fuck, let's have a crimeless society simply because YOU like to get fucked up, and use shoddy arguments to defend this.


Should crime rates really be artificially raised in favor of a law that dismisses human rights?
__________________
SOMEONE ELSE GAVE ME THIS AVATAR
Old 12-07-2006, 09:47 AM ry_goody is offline  
Reply With Quote
#499  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turd sculptor View Post
Should crime rates really be artificially raised in favor of a law that dismisses human rights?

__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 12-07-2006, 12:10 PM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#500  

UnknownSouljer
 
to put this in a bit of perspective. I am in Taiwan right now. The law in taiwan for marijuana is simple

possession = death
dealing = death

and im serious, of course the idiot tourists usually just get off the hook and immediatly get sent back. But if they came to sell.. thats another story
__________________
UnknownGen[M]ayer
Old 12-08-2006, 04:25 PM UnknownSouljer is offline  
Reply With Quote
#501  

littleaznbag
 
^
whoops, thats me

no idea why his name was saved on my computer
__________________
There once was a devil who told a penguin to throw an apple through a window
313a92f17586f18fe0f29762f5355ae5
Old 12-08-2006, 04:27 PM littleaznbag is offline  
Reply With Quote
#502  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straw Man View Post
Nowhere there, does it say rape, or murder. It's simply saying arguing redundantly that decriminalizing something of course leads to less crime (...whoop de doo, who would have guessed that?). Well you fucking mongoloid, that applies to every crime in the fucking book. Of course it would lead to less crime, it wouldn't be a fucking crime anymore retard DUH

You seem to miss the point that there is crime other than the possessing and selling of marijuana that would be reduced by the decriminalization or legalization of marijuana. Marijuana is the number one selling illicit drug. Its sales undoubtedly fund organized crime and international cartels as they are the ones with the resources to start large grow ops and distribute the product through their own networks maximizing their profits. Also, by not focusing so much law enforcement time and effort on a crime where most of the criminals are willing victims of themselves, then they could focus that time and effort on reducing crimes where there are actual unwilling victims.

~750,000 people every year. Three quarters of a million arrested every year. How many law enforcement man hours do you think that represents? How long does it take to arrest, book, possibly jail, and attend court cases for each person? Maybe three, four hours? maybe eight all together? Who knows but anything over two hours and we are talking millions of law enforcement man hours spend dealing with usually non-violent "criminals" who's only wish is to potentially harm themselves with a substance that is unlikely to do them or anyone else around them any real harm. And we are just talking police here, not the prison workers, probation officers, judges, bailiffs, other court workers and assorted costs that actually go into convicting and dealing with all these "criminals".

The comparison to rape and murder is not a valid one. We are suggesting that things that are not really crimes should not be criminalized, not that we should just stop enforcing laws because that might save money. We should stop criminalizing things which aren't criminal to begin with because it doesn't do us any good and there's nearly a century worth of data that shows that it is actually counter productive to the very end which it seeks. If it is not criminal to ingest alcohol or tobacco then it should not be criminal to ingest marijuana, or to produce it and possess it as they would be necessary to the ingesting of it.

Yeah, a lot of the people who think marijuana should be legal probably have smoked it and think they might benefit personally from its decriminalization but there are other benefits to society at large. Benefits like not tossing billions of dollars down a bottomless pit each year with no tangible benefit, not making criminals out of people who are not criminals, not separating people from their families and increasing the burden on public services unnecessarily, not wasting law enforcement man hours redirecting them away from actual crimes, not rewarding organized crime and international cartels for flaunting our laws with tens of billions of dollars every year, not losing everyone's civil liberties in the name of stopping people from getting high, not losing out on billions of dollars of tax money that could be realized from legal marijuana revenues and licensing, benefits like removing the only actual proven "gateway" action of marijuana, introducing young people to the illicit market. The list goes on and on.

And what is the downside? People might use a substance that is demonstrably less dangerous than the other two legal recreational intoxicants. So what. How does it benefit us to try and stop them? I've listed various ways the effort backfires, what do we actually gain from it? Lets pretend we even could arrest the ~25+ million americans who smoke marijuana every year, How would that benefit our society?
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street
Old 12-08-2006, 09:19 PM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#503  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
You seem to miss the point that there is crime other than the possessing and selling of marijuana that would be reduced by the decriminalization or legalization of marijuana. Marijuana is the number one selling illicit drug. Its sales undoubtedly fund organized crime and international cartels as they are the ones with the resources to start large grow ops and distribute the product through their own networks maximizing their profits. Also, by not focusing so much law enforcement time and effort on a crime where most of the criminals are willing victims of themselves, then they could focus that time and effort on reducing crimes where there are actual unwilling victims.
I am not missing that point, and I fully understand it. For the Nth time, I am simply saying that arguing legalization because crime would drop is stupid, because first of all it is redundant. It's like saying when you drop the ball, it's going to hit the ground. Well duh.
Secondly, I guess we could eliminate crime related to smuggling by decriminalizing smuggling, by simply opening the borders and letting anyone deliver anything inside regions where these borders once where. Now, that's a stupid thing to suggest, no?
We could eliminate crime related to whatever, by simply decriminalizing it. Yes, let's do that with rape and murder as well, if not for anything else than to let the resident LSD hippie to rave about it.

The problem with these, AND MARIJUANA, would be that arguing decriminalization solely because of crime rates is redundant, and it offers absolutely nothing else. Drop the ball, it goes to the ground. Yeah sure thing it does.
If you wish to argue that marijuana should be decriminalized BECAUSE OF <insert something here>, that's just fine with me.
Quote:
~750,000 people every year. Three quarters of a million arrested every year. How many law enforcement man hours do you think that represents? How long does it take to arrest, book, possibly jail, and attend court cases for each person? Maybe three, four hours? maybe eight all together? Who knows but anything over two hours and we are talking millions of law enforcement man hours spend dealing with usually non-violent "criminals" who's only wish is to potentially harm themselves with a substance that is unlikely to do them or anyone else around them any real harm. And we are just talking police here, not the prison workers, probation officers, judges, bailiffs, other court workers and assorted costs that actually go into convicting and dealing with all these "criminals".
You see, now you have some point. You're saying it's practically harmless. Now that's a reason why it should be argued to be decriminalized.
Quote:
The comparison to rape and murder is not a valid one. We are suggesting that things that are not really crimes should not be criminalized, not that we should just stop enforcing laws because that might save money. We should stop criminalizing things which aren't criminal to begin with because it doesn't do us any good and there's nearly a century worth of data that shows that it is actually counter productive to the very end which it seeks. If it is not criminal to ingest alcohol or tobacco then it should not be criminal to ingest marijuana, or to produce it and possess it as they would be necessary to the ingesting of it.
As an act that is committed on someone by someone, of course it's not. No one suggested that, the only place this happened in was in the head of a homosexual LSD hippie that is disconnected from reality, and a raging borderline alcoholic who pressed refresh one time too many in the middle of killing appletinis.
In talking about legalizing something solely for the crime to reduce, yes it is the exact same thing.
Quote:
Yeah, a lot of the people who think marijuana should be legal probably have smoked it and think they might benefit personally from its decriminalization but there are other benefits to society at large. Benefits like not tossing billions of dollars down a bottomless pit each year with no tangible benefit, not making criminals out of people who are not criminals, not separating people from their families and increasing the burden on public services unnecessarily, not wasting law enforcement man hours redirecting them away from actual crimes, not rewarding organized crime and international cartels for flaunting our laws with tens of billions of dollars every year, not losing everyone's civil liberties in the name of stopping people from getting high, not losing out on billions of dollars of tax money that could be realized from legal marijuana revenues and licensing, benefits like removing the only actual proven "gateway" action of marijuana, introducing young people to the illicit market. The list goes on and on.
Like I have said, I have smoked, I do not smoke anymore though, and I wouldn't mind it being legal either. I wouldn't fine you for wanting to get fucked up in your spare time. That to me is a valid reason.
Quote:
And what is the downside? People might use a substance that is demonstrably less dangerous than the other two legal recreational intoxicants. So what. How does it benefit us to try and stop them? I've listed various ways the effort backfires, what do we actually gain from it? Lets pretend we even could arrest the ~25+ million americans who smoke marijuana every year, How would that benefit our society?
^^

Funny, I simply mention I don't like some of the battles although I guess I kind of agree with the war, and this is what goes down
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 12-10-2006, 06:30 PM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#504  

SilkSteel
 
SilkSteel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
I am not missing that point, and I fully understand it. For the Nth time, I am simply saying that arguing legalization because crime would drop is stupid, because first of all it is redundant. It's like saying when you drop the ball, it's going to hit the ground. Well duh.
Secondly, I guess we could eliminate crime related to smuggling by decriminalizing smuggling, by simply opening the borders and letting anyone deliver anything inside regions where these borders once where. Now, that's a stupid thing to suggest, no?
We could eliminate crime related to whatever, by simply decriminalizing it. Yes, let's do that with rape and murder as well, if not for anything else than to let the resident LSD hippie to rave about it.


The argument of "decriminalization = less crimes" does not mean that if you decriminalize something it cuts down on that crime by not actually being a crime anymore. It means that subsequent crimes AS A RESULT of making marijuana illegal will also drop.

It means that people who get murdered for weed, yes even weed, will not get murdered because they can buy weed legally from a safe source. It means that organized crime will no longer sell marijuana for incredible profits which get funneled back into their criminal activities such as murder, thievery, illegal gambling, or whatever - reducing their ability to commit such crimes.

Basically, it means that any crime which would have been committed as a result of illegal marijuana would not be committed anymore because marijuana would be as legal as a pack of smokes. When was the last time you heard of gangsters selling cigarettes to make money for their other crimes?
Old 12-10-2006, 06:51 PM SilkSteel is offline  
Reply With Quote
#505  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkSteel View Post
The argument of "decriminalization = less crimes" does not mean that if you decriminalize something it cuts down on that crime by not actually being a crime anymore. It means that subsequent crimes AS A RESULT of making marijuana illegal will also drop.
How do you exactly come to that? What exactly is subsequent to you? The same guy that will rob a mcd's will rob it regardless of where he buys his shit from.
Quote:
It means that people who get murdered for weed, yes even weed, will not get murdered because they can buy weed legally from a safe source. It means that organized crime will no longer sell marijuana for incredible profits which get funneled back into their criminal activities such as murder, thievery, illegal gambling, or whatever - reducing their ability to commit such crimes.
That is a utopia you guys think you'd live in. You can gamble/drink/smoke legally just about all you like, if you seriously think there wouldn't be people peddling with this shit afterwards in a serious magnitude you're kind of lost.
Quote:
Basically, it means that any crime which would have been committed as a result of illegal marijuana would not be committed anymore because marijuana would be as legal as a pack of smokes. When was the last time you heard of gangsters selling cigarettes to make money for their other crimes?
This week, when I bought my cigarettes
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 12-11-2006, 11:12 AM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#506  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straw Man View Post
How do you exactly come to that? What exactly is subsequent to you? The same guy that will rob a mcd's will rob it regardless of where he buys his shit from.
Well, I dunno how often people are robbing a Mcd's to get money for weed but that's not really what we are talking about. We're talking about the supply side here. Customers and what they do to get money to afford their next fix is more of a discussion for harder drugs. With marijuana the problem is far more that the profits from its sales are funding organized crime and international cartels which in turn funds more crime and rounding up non-violent marijuana users takes money and man hours away from solving more serious crimes.

Legalizing marijuana would free up the money and man hours we are currently wasting on arresting marijuana users and taxes on it could provide a revenue stream to further combat crime and addiction. Also, it would remove marijuana as a revenue stream from criminals. It is win-win-win all around. Legalizing theft or rape or murder would not have the same benefits and would result in more victimization, not less. Legalizing and regulating prostitution would be more comparable to legalizing and regulating marijuana.

And yes, organized crime does currently dip into legal stuff as well like alcohol and cigarettes, because they have the money to bribe law enforcement and the money to pay people to give them information on supply routes and the money to pay people to steal trucks and they have the distribution channels to move the stolen goods so then they can go and sell legal merchandise that they have stolen for nearly 100% profit. Money from drugs funds more crime just like this. Alcohol prohibition is what gave organized crime its big start and power in this nation and our current prohibitions on "vice" help perpetuate that legacy both here and abroad.
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street
Old 12-11-2006, 04:22 PM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#507  

SilkSteel
 
SilkSteel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straw Man View Post
That is a utopia you guys think you'd live in. You can gamble/drink/smoke legally just about all you like, if you seriously think there wouldn't be people peddling with this shit afterwards in a serious magnitude you're kind of lost.

Why would gangsters still want to sell weed if it will be available everywhere for cheap? You increase the supply and the demand goes away. The market will be flooded with weed.
Old 12-11-2006, 04:24 PM SilkSteel is offline  
Reply With Quote
#508  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
New report from the MPP:

Quote:
MPP Report: Does Prohibition of Marijuana for Adults Curb Use by Adolescents?

MPP's December 2006 report examines whether current marijuana laws effectively deter marijuana use by young people. Among the major findings:

* Marijuana prohibition has not prevented a dramatic increase in marijuana use by teenagers. In fact, the overall rate of marijuana use in the U.S. has risen by roughly 4,000% since marijuana was first outlawed.

* Independent studies by RAND Europe and the U.S. National Research Council have reported that marijuana prohibition appears to have little or no impact on rates of use.

* Since Britain ended most marijuana possession arrests in 2004, the rate of marijuana use by 16-to-19-year-olds has dropped.

* In the U.S., rates of teen marijuana use in states that have decriminalized adult marijuana possession are statistically equal to rates in those that have retained criminal penalties.

* In the Netherlands, where adults have been allowed to possess and purchase small amounts of marijuana since 1976, the rate of marijuana use by adults and teens is lower than the U.S., and teen use of cocaine and amphetamines is far lower than in the U.S.
Read the full report here: http://www.mpp.org/teenuse
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street
Old 12-12-2006, 02:09 AM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#509  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
also in recent news the gateway theory was debunked, yet again:
http://www.upmc.com/Communications/N...SmokingGun.htm

Quote:
While the gateway theory posits that each type of drug is associated with certain specific risk factors that cause the use of subsequent drugs, such as cigarettes or alcohol leading to marijuana, this study’s findings indicate that environmental aspects have stronger influence on which type of substance is used. That is, if it’s easier for a teen to get his hands on marijuana than beer, then he’ll be more likely to smoke pot. This evidence supports what’s known as the common liability model, an emerging theory that states the likelihood that someone will transition to the use of illegal drugs is determined not by the preceding use of a particular drug but instead by the user’s individual tendencies and environmental circumstances.

“The emphasis on the drugs themselves, rather than other, more important factors that shape a person’s behavior, has been detrimental to drug policy and prevention programs,” Dr. Tarter said. “To become more effective in our efforts to fight drug abuse, we should devote more attention to interventions that address these issues, particularly to parenting skills that shape the child’s behavior as well as peer and neighborhood environments.”
Another recent article: http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/45535/
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street

Last edited by pyramid; 12-19-2006 at 05:28 PM..
Old 12-12-2006, 02:20 AM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#510  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:45 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.