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vinnie
OH MY GOD!!! I LOVE SUCKING COCK!!!!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilkka
Oh wow. Talk about being an ignorant shit...Of course it depends on how you train your reserves. I don't know how it's done in Britain, but 6 months to a year of active training and then amount x of training in the reserves does produce a rather effective force for Finland.
I don't know how it's done in Britain either. Who gives a fuck?

Quote:
When the army is designed around reserves then they are a substitute for professional soldiers. When the entire training process is built around the knowledge that come wartime there will only be a couple of professionals per battallion the training is quite bit different from what in Britain might create chocos. The conscripts attitudes towards the service are different when they know that they are the sole thing ensuring the countries continued existance. Well-motivated, well-trained conscripts can outpreform a professional army.
Are you *in* a fucking army? Have you ever actually worked with both professional and reserve soldiers? I see both every fucking day of my life that I'm not out hiking and sometimes I take some with me, so not even then am I away from soldiers.

I'll take my view over some internet dipshits hypothetical bull shit 'I think' fucking made up crap.

Quote:
See, I don't want people like you assuring my safety. I'd be scared as fuck if only people like you, who consider themselves special because they are professional soldiers, were in the military.
I'm not assuring your safety. You seem to be on the other side. Quite the opposite really.

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Of course war demands near absolute obedience, a willingness to give one's life, and all sorts of extraordinary things, but none of that means that ordinary people wouldn't be suited for the task when necessary.
War? What about my every day fucking job? That doesn't require absolute obedience and self sacrifice? What are you doing tommorow? I'm working without a break from 0730h to 2200h. Yeah, count the hours in there. Duty piquet kind of sucks, but it's my turn this week so I do it.

Quote:
Look no further than Finland's wars for proof.
Yeah, traitors to the west? Woowoo, I'll be sure to throw in with them!
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Old 05-07-2006, 11:56 PM vinnie is offline  
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#196  

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ilkka
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
I don't know how it's done in Britain either. Who gives a fuck?
I don't know where the fuck you are from, I assumed britain.
Quote:
Are you *in* a fucking army? Have you ever actually worked with both professional and reserve soldiers? I see both every fucking day of my life that I'm not out hiking and sometimes I take some with me, so not even then am I away from soldiers.

I'll take my view over some internet dipshits hypothetical bull shit 'I think' fucking made up crap.
I served for a year, and saw enough conscripts and professional soldiers to know what I'm talking about.
Quote:
Yeah, traitors to the west? Woowoo, I'll be sure to throw in with them!
Traitors to the west? What the fuck are you talking about? Finland didn't have an alliance with the west. Finland was out to defend itself, and that is exactly what it did. In WW2 Finland pretty much had two choices; align itself with the Soviets (and get fucked like the rest of eastern europe), align itself with Germany and survive, or fight alone and probably lose. The west sympathized with Finland, but couldn't help for obvious reasons. Finland did not participate in the German offensive against Soviet Union, nor did it send it's jews to Germany. The war Finland was fighting was in a very real sense it's own. Finland's alliance with Germany was a sham, discarded when convenient and the president who made it was condemned a traitor (to appease the Soviets after the war).

You quite obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Basically what you are accusing Finland of is fighting against the Soviet Union at the same time as Nazi Germany. What you fail to realize is that Finland was stuck between two evil powers and had to survive. Working with the Nazis was a necessary evil, much like America's work with the Soviet Union. Which was a greater evil is an open question: Stalin's democide of 43 million certainly dwarfs Hitler's 21 million.
If you want to look at it on the surface, how many countres in continental europe involved in the war were never occupied? How many countres in continental europe maintained a democratic system throughout the war? How many of Russia's neighbors were not stuck under the Iron Curtain for decades after the war?

On the subject of war Finland really has very little to be ashmed of and much to be proud of.

Last edited by ilkka; 05-08-2006 at 02:29 AM..
Old 05-08-2006, 02:26 AM ilkka is offline  
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#197  

Schadenfreude
 
In finland's defense, the Winter War pretty much forced them into an alliance with Hitler. The enemy of my enemy etc. I don't recall Finland getting a bad rap from western or eastern historians about their wartime activities.
Old 05-08-2006, 02:36 AM Schadenfreude is offline  
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#198  

vinnie
OH MY GOD!!! I LOVE SUCKING COCK!!!!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilkka
I don't know where the fuck you are from, I assumed britain.
Quote:
I voted for Howard then joined the army and am proud of both.
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Australia... Mate
Fuck me dead and call me Fred, I wonder where the fuck I could be from? Fucking Bulgaria? How about Uzbekistan? The Peoples Republic of Congo?

Quote:
I served for a year, and saw enough conscripts and professional soldiers to know what I'm talking about.
"Oh look at me, I was forced into national service for a year so now I am fully intellect about the military and feel free to make bull shit assumptions".

How many Australian soldiers have you met? British? Canadian? Heck, even American?

'Ladida, hay guyz, I know everything about professional soldiers because I met some in a small northern European country when I was forced into national service".

Quote:
Traitors to the west? What the fuck are you talking about? Finland didn't have an alliance with the west. Finland was out to defend itself, and that is exactly what it did. In WW2 Finland pretty much had two choices; align itself with the Soviets (and get fucked like the rest of eastern europe), align itself with Germany and survive, or fight alone and probably lose. The west sympathized with Finland, but couldn't help for obvious reasons. Finland did not participate in the German offensive against Soviet Union, nor did it send it's jews to Germany. The war Finland was fighting was in a very real sense it's own. Finland's alliance with Germany was a sham, discarded when convenient and the president who made it was condemned a traitor (to appease the Soviets after the war).

You quite obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Basically what you are accusing Finland of is fighting against the Soviet Union at the same time as Nazi Germany. What you fail to realize is that Finland was stuck between two evil powers and had to survive. Working with the Nazis was a necessary evil, much like America's work with the Soviet Union. Which was a greater evil is an open question: Stalin's democide of 43 million certainly dwarfs Hitler's 21 million.
If you want to look at it on the surface, how many countres in continental europe involved in the war were never occupied? How many countres in continental europe maintained a democratic system throughout the war? How many of Russia's neighbors were not stuck under the Iron Curtain for decades after the war?

On the subject of war Finland really has very little to be ashmed of and much to be proud of.
Words! I didn't read them, so I hope you just cut and paste or something. I don't care enough about you to bother. I'll assume however that you spouted some nationalistic pride based on the first couple of words.

So yeah... you can talk Finland up all you like and you can talk your year of conscription up real big. Your military has, per capita, less than half the funding of ours. Maybe, just maybe the soldiers are more than half as well trained and equipped... given they're not voluntary though, I really strongly doubt it.

In short, fuck up newbie
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Old 05-08-2006, 02:48 AM vinnie is offline  
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#199  

ilkka
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
Fuck me dead and call me Fred, I wonder where the fuck I could be from? Fucking Bulgaria? How about Uzbekistan? The Peoples Republic of Congo?
I have signature turned off and don't care enough to read your profile. The term "choco" sounded dumb enough to be English so I assumed you were. Chill.
Quote:
"Oh look at me, I was forced into national service for a year so now I am fully intellect about the military and feel free to make bull shit assumptions".

How many Australian soldiers have you met? British? Canadian? Heck, even American?

'Ladida, hay guyz, I know everything about professional soldiers because I met some in a small northern European country when I was forced into national service".
And you know everything about conscripts because you failed at civilian life and joined the military? How many Finnish conscripts have you seen?
Quote:
Words! I didn't read them, so I hope you just cut and paste or something. I don't care enough about you to bother. I'll assume however that you spouted some nationalistic pride based on the first couple of words.
Quote:
So yeah... you can talk Finland up all you like and you can talk your year of conscription up real big. Your military has, per capita, less than half the funding of ours. Maybe, just maybe the soldiers are more than half as well trained and equipped... given they're not voluntary though, I really strongly doubt it.
That's rich; you spend more money so automatically you are twice as well trained? It's obvious that you don't know the first thing about military training. You obviously have no idea what conscript armies are like and how they are trained; do yourself a service and shut up.

If the Australian military is composed people like you, then I am more convinced than ever that conscription is necessary to dilute the pool of tards who would compose a professional army.

edit:
The best NCOs and officers I met during my service were almost without exception people who would never have volunteered. One was a sheet welder, another an architect student, one was planning on applying to medical school, etc. - none of these people would have joined the volunteer army, but in a conscript army they are motivated to be the best they can be.

Last edited by ilkka; 05-08-2006 at 05:08 AM..
Old 05-08-2006, 04:30 AM ilkka is offline  
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#200  

Badger_sly
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inf
[url].....IT'S ON THE INTERNET IT MUST BE TRUE!
Wow, you sure discredited the report to the UN Security Coucil with your line there!!
/sarcasm
Old 05-08-2006, 12:01 PM Badger_sly is offline  
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#201  

Badger_sly
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonorrherpesyphilis
I oppose the idea of military service because a person just becomes the willing pawn of the big power brokers of the world. Many of these pawns have accepted patriotic or religious or fraternal sentiments as valid reasons for joining up, not to mention of course the increasing financial incentives they are giving.

You do realize they are paying you less--far less--than what your service is worth to them, correct? If this were not the case, they would not recruit you with the pay and benefits you currently enjoy.


You are not fighting to protect people. You are fighting to protect the investments of the wealthy. I wouldn't doubt if some of you were perfectly aware of this, yet continue to believe in military service.
You obviously have no clue about any of the benefits of being in the military.

And all of your "working for the wealthy" is pure .
Old 05-08-2006, 12:04 PM Badger_sly is offline  
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#202  

Gonorrherpesyphilis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger_sly
You obviously have no clue about any of the benefits of being in the military.

I'm sure there are, but being paid for what your service is worth is not one of them.

Quote:
And all of your "working for the wealthy" is pure .
Care to give a reason why, or am I to take this one on faith, simply because you said it?

Last edited by Gonorrherpesyphilis; 05-08-2006 at 12:12 PM..
Old 05-08-2006, 12:07 PM Gonorrherpesyphilis is offline  
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#203  

Badger_sly
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonorrherpesyphilis
I'm sure there are, but being paid for what your service is worth is not one of them.
"worth" is pay and benefits.

Quote:
Care to give a reason why, or am I to take this one on faith, simply because you said it?
My reason is that you lack any proof (other than your goofy conspiracy) that our military does the bidding of the wealthy for the wealthys' gain.

If you post some wacko conspiracy, you need to post some proof. Otherwise you get put in the tinfoil hate / short bus group.
Old 05-08-2006, 01:14 PM Badger_sly is offline  
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#204  

Gonorrherpesyphilis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger_sly
"worth" is pay and benefits.

Right, and I'm saying the pay and benefits you receive are less than what your service is worth to them, in terms of the financial gain they believe your service will get them. For how could it be otherwise?

Quote:
My reason is that you lack any proof (other than your goofy conspiracy) that our military does the bidding of the wealthy for the wealthys' gain.

If you post some wacko conspiracy, you need to post some proof. Otherwise you get put in the tinfoil hate / short bus group.
Alright, then...if mine is a wacko conspiracy, then what is the "default, sensible" position? Is the default and the sensible by definition, "That which I am told by superiors"? Or what is it?

If we want to go down this road, that's fine, but let's do it correctly and start from scratch. What is the military's function, in your view? Keep in mind that no matter what your answer, I will attack it and require evidence, since you would be making a positive assertion, and the positive claimant bears the burden of producing evidence.

Last edited by Gonorrherpesyphilis; 05-08-2006 at 01:51 PM..
Old 05-08-2006, 01:33 PM Gonorrherpesyphilis is offline  
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#205  

Clos
cheezy
 
Quote:
The soldiers can't just say "fuck this, I quit" They have loyalty to their jobs and can't do shit to change anything.
Contrary to popular belief, we can quit at any time. We are told every Friday during our safety briefings that if we want to quit to talk to our platoon sergeant to start the paperwork.

Quote:
Reserves are fucking useless. We call them choccos for a reason. Don't ever suggest that reserves are somehow a substitute for professional soldiers. They don't go through a fraction of the training that real soldiers do.
I'm currently an active army enlistedperson, but I'm going to be reserve for 4 years while I attend college...Green to Gold...I really want to be an officer. I have gone through the real training, does it still make me useless?

I currently WANT to go to the sandbox...it's really not that bad.
Old 05-08-2006, 07:02 PM Clos is offline  
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#206  

may123
 
Isn't it sort of dumb for him to call us out? Thats like me saying I don't understand fags, so they can't be gay or I don't like playing golf, so they shouldn't play. Honestly I don't give a damn what you cowards think of the military. Without it, you wouldn't be here as the coward you are. You just want a fight. Your worse than any warmonger, anywhere.

Support your troops because we support you.

And cheezy, remember after you go through that Green to Gold program you won't be able to "quit" If you do, you will owe money, so be weary.
Old 05-08-2006, 07:18 PM may123 is offline  
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#207  

Gonorrherpesyphilis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragmanlaw
Honestly I don't give a damn what you cowards think of the military. Without it, you wouldn't be here as the coward you are. You just want a fight. Your worse than any warmonger, anywhere.

Support your troops because we support you.

Costa Rica seems to get along fine without a military. It's a safe, stable place for tourism. I think the world should follow its example.
Old 05-08-2006, 07:33 PM Gonorrherpesyphilis is offline  
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#208  

Gonorrherpesyphilis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidhero
Buy yourself a pansy ass island and station yourself there for the rest of your life.

Normally I would, but since my boss pays me far less than what my work is worth, it will be some time before I'm able to relocate.
Old 05-09-2006, 05:55 AM Gonorrherpesyphilis is offline  
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#209  

vinnie
OH MY GOD!!! I LOVE SUCKING COCK!!!!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilkka
I have signature turned off and don't care enough to read your profile. The term "choco" sounded dumb enough to be English so I assumed you were. Chill.And you know everything about conscripts because you failed at civilian life and joined the military? How many Finnish conscripts have you seen?That's rich; you spend more money so automatically you are twice as well trained? It's obvious that you don't know the first thing about military training. You obviously have no idea what conscript armies are like and how they are trained; do yourself a service and shut up.

No, I have no idea about training. Tell me, how much did you go through? I'm curious.

Me, just to have the absolute basic soldierly skills required for my profession and trade, spent six months straight in initial training. The first three months was 16 hours seven days a week.

Since then, keep in mind we're talking just over a year, I've spent weeks in total on courses for general soldierly materal, trade skills and advanced courses for trade skills above my pay grade, but hey, I'm fucking brilliant and the hierarchy want to utilise that.

I ah... failed at civilian life? I waffled. I'll waffle further as I continue to rack up civilian qualifications as all of my training is civilian accredited. Yeah, that's right fuckface, once it's wrapped up I pick up a fucking diploma, plus all the other neat certificates along the way. All this goes well with my degree and sits real nice with my current job security


Quote:
If the Australian military is composed people like you, then I am more convinced than ever that conscription is necessary to dilute the pool of tards who would compose a professional army.
Whinge whinge fucking whinge. You're from a backwater country with a piss weak military and you want to talk soldier with the big boys. Run along now


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezy
I'm currently an active army enlistedperson, but I'm going to be reserve for 4 years while I attend college...Green to Gold...I really want to be an officer. I have gone through the real training, does it still make me useless?

I currently WANT to go to the sandbox...it's really not that bad.

That's different if you started as a professional. No matter what anyone says, *living* as a soldier is different to dressing as one for a couple of hours a week. We just had chocco night and well, it makes me sad No only because it makes my work day six hours longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonorrherpesyphilis
Right, and I'm saying the pay and benefits you receive are less than what your service is worth to them, in terms of the financial gain they believe your service will get them. For how could it be otherwise?
I waffled. Working hours suck, dying sucks, otherwise, pay and fringe benefits are fucking awesome.
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Old 05-09-2006, 06:41 AM vinnie is offline  
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