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ephekt
 
Because, like all loud pretentious youth, veggies have to export their dreariness on the rest of the world in order to feel better about depriving themselves of the joys of consuming animal products?
Old 03-02-2010, 08:55 AM ephekt is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ephekt View Post
Because, like all loud pretentious youth, veggies have to export their dreariness on the rest of the world in order to feel better about depriving themselves of the joys of consuming animal products?

That aimed at me I assume?


I am not a youth
I am not a vegetarian
You may have me on the pretentious part


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Originally Posted by gee View Post
Well if the goal is to eat an unfertilized egg, and parthenogenesis counts as fertilization... why don't you just not eat the damn thing if you find blood in it?

Why would the goal be to eat an unfertilized egg? It's still an animal product and NOT a vegetable product. Thus, anyone eating eggs cant really be considered vegetarian by any reasonable standard.


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Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
But he said live.

"You keep what you kill" - Necromonger Social contract
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:05 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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That aimed at me I assume?


I am not a youth
I am not a vegetarian
You may have me on the pretentious part

I'm pretty sure that was an example of posting without reading....not directed to anyone on this thread.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:12 AM Coqui is offline  
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Why would the goal be to eat an unfertilized egg? It's still an animal product and NOT a vegetable product. Thus, anyone eating eggs cant really be considered vegetarian by any reasonable standard.


You keep taking the more extreme versions of vegetarianism and saying those only count.

Sure your argument on eggs holds more weight, but I think the active part of eating meat is what matters most.

Is someone not a vegetarian just because they eat marshmallows?
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:14 AM Coqui is offline  
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ephekt
 
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That aimed at me I assume?


I am not a youth
I am not a vegetarian
You may have me on the pretentious part
I didn't bother reading the context, so it seemed like you were arguing in favor of vegetarianism.

Also, it seems like you're conflating veggie and vegan. But I don't really care enough to argue that point.
Old 03-02-2010, 10:17 AM ephekt is offline  
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Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
You keep taking the more extreme versions of vegetarianism and saying those only count.

Sure your argument on eggs holds more weight, but I think the active part of eating meat is what matters most.

Is someone not a vegetarian just because they eat marshmallows?

does it contain animal products?
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:20 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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does it contain animal products?

Gelatin is an animal byproduct.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:21 AM Coqui is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ephekt View Post
I didn't bother reading the context, so it seemed like you were arguing in favor of vegetarianism.

Also, it seems like you're conflating veggie and vegan. But I don't really care enough to argue that point.

Nope Vegan wont use animal products at all. As stated earlier. No leather belts no snake skin shoes no fur coats etc. Vegetarians have no such restrictions. Only dietary.

The I am a vegetarian but I eat fish doesn't cut it Neither does eggs bacon caviar ox blood or whatever "special" food thats from the animal kingdom that they feel is still ok to eat and still be called vegetarians.

My argument has been that vegetarians need supplements in order to survive. Omnivorous humans don't and it's possible that carnivorous humans dont.(Inuit diet)

Others want vegetarians to be able to eat animal products and still be considered vegetarians and then claim that this makes the supplement argument invalid. claiming only vegans (and I suppose macrobiotics) fall under the needing supplements category.
Even though non vegan vegetarians are constantly being admitted to hospitals for deficiencies.
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Last edited by TheMorlock; 03-02-2010 at 10:40 AM..
Old 03-02-2010, 10:26 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
Gelatin is an animal byproduct.

Is there gelatin in marshmallows? Never checked the label. could be starches and sugar holding It together. If it has animal products in it and someone eats it they are not vegetarian.

By the way do you concede that the Insulin using Peta VIP is a hypocrite yet?


Ah just checked Originally they did not use gelatin. They used the sticky root sap of the plant. Modern ones do use gelatin.

Quote:
According to Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, a marshmallow is:

1: a pink-flowered European perennial herb (Althaea officinalis) of the mallow family that is naturalized in the eastern U.S. and has a mucilaginous root sometimes used in confectionery and in medicine; 2: a confection made from the root of the marshmallow or from corn syrup, sugar, albumen, and gelatin beaten to a light spongy consistency

That word "mucilaginous" means "jelly-like." Later, the root was replaced by gelatin, and that is how modern marshmallows are made.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:29 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Is there gelatin in marshmallows? Never checked the label. could be starches and sugar holding It together. If it has animal products in it and someone eats it they are not vegetarian.

By the way do you concede that the Insulin using Peta VIP is a hypocrite yet?

Yes it contains gelatin. By your definition, anyone who drinks wine or beer isn't a vegetarian nor is anyone who takes medication that is in capsule form.

Again, I think there's a version of vegetarianism where you're simply not actively eating meat. Milk and cheese would be fine in that area.

And frankly I never cared about the PETA VP. I was just trying to understand where they hypocrisy was. So sure, she's a hypocrite for using insulin.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:38 AM Coqui is offline  
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Ah just checked Originally they did not use gelatin. They used the sticky root sap of the plant. Modern ones do use gelatin.

Obviously I'm talking about now.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:39 AM Coqui is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
Yes it contains gelatin. By your definition, anyone who drinks wine or beer isn't a vegetarian nor is anyone who takes medication that is in capsule form.

Again, I think there's a version of vegetarianism where you're simply not actively eating meat. Milk and cheese would be fine in that area.

And frankly I never cared about the PETA VP. I was just trying to understand where they hypocrisy was. So sure, she's a hypocrite for using insulin.

Grapes are not an animal product. the yeast that converts sugars into alcohol is not an animal.

So why would that or medicine that is not animal derived make someone not a vegetarian?

Once again to be clear if you Eat Animal Derived Products You Are Not Vegetarian. If you want to go eat lab created hydrocarbon chains that have never been in a plant this does not qualify as Eating Animal Derived Products.

If you want to get your vitamins by swallowing chunks of granite this does not qualify as Eating Animal Derived Products.

It's pretty straightforward. You eat an animal product you are not a vegetarian. I dont care how many sub terms wiki has for "special vegetarians that allow special animal product a b or c.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:50 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Nope Vegan wont use animal products at all. As stated earlier. No leather belts no snake skin shoes no fur coats etc. Vegetarians have no such restrictions. Only dietary.
I realize this. But there seems to be a distinction between 'ethical' vegetarians and those who simply prefer the diet. I agree that veggies that eat fish are self-deluding (even though this is mostly a cultural thing), but I don't really think it means one is 'not a real' vegetarian for eating animal by-products if they're not veggies for ethical reasons in the first place. As moronic as it is, some people actually think it's more healthy and 'natural.' I'm acquainted with a few such hipsters.
Old 03-02-2010, 10:55 AM ephekt is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Grapes are not an animal product. the yeast that converts sugars into alcohol is not an animal.

So why would that or medicine that is not animal derived make someone not a vegetarian?

Once again to be clear if you Eat Animal Derived Products You Are Not Vegetarian. If you want to go eat lab created hydrocarbon chains that have never been in a plant this does not qualify as Eating Animal Derived Products.

If you want to get your vitamins by swallowing chunks of granite this does not qualify as Eating Animal Derived Products.

It's pretty straightforward. You eat an animal product you are not a vegetarian. I dont care how many sub terms wiki has for "special vegetarians that allow special animal product a b or c.


The process of making wine and beer involves fish bladders. Capsules contain gelatin.
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:00 AM Coqui is offline  
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vegetarian is vegetarian. which means eating plant derived foods and not animal derived foods.

The reason someone chooses to be one has no impact on what the meaning of vegetarian is.

It does not matter what the motivation is. If they eat animal products they are by definition NOT vegetarian.

This is not complicated.

Why are people trying to make it so?

Are we going to follow Coqui down the inevitable path of reduction to absurdity that he started? Are we going to take into consideration that some of the plants we eat has single celled or even multi cell animals living on it and thus if we swallow them does it make us not vegetarians?
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:03 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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