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Rapier
 
Let's Talk About The National Debt

As of yesterday, the national debt currently stands at 12.4 trillion dollars. Intragovernmental holdings account for 4.5 trillion. The rest, 7.9 trillion, is held by the public (any non-Federal government person or institution). ^1 Out of the publicly held debt, 3.6 trillion is held by foreign institutions and persons, approximately 45.6% of the debt held by the public. ^2

In fiscal year 2009, the Federal government is estimated to have spent about 3.5 trillion dollars (actual figures lag about 2 years from the present). 2.1 trillion dollars were raised by the government via taxes, while 1.4 trillion dollars was borrowed from the public (through auctions of Treasury bills, notes, and bonds). ^3 The 1.4 trillion dollar deficit represents 1/3 of Federal spending for the year and about 10% of GDP.

Approximately 187 billion dollars were spent paying interest on the national debt in 2009, or 5% of all outlays . In 10 years, that figure balloons to 912 billion, an approximate 5 fold increase and will consume 16% of Federal spending. This is roughly the same amount of money that will be spent defending the country. ^3

Currently, there is no plan in sight in curbing the deficits that Washington intends to run for at least 10 years into the future. The OMB's own estimates of economic growth and Treasury yields are probably too optimistic, which will push the cost of debt service even higher than what they are currently projecting. Something is definitely fishy with the White House's accountants, as they are projecting Federal mandatory spending (the financial black holes known as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid) to decrease 7% relative to total spending from 2009 to 2020 while virtually no private estimates are projecting even neutrality.

From what I can see, this is a big fucking problem. And I seriously doubt that either party can muster the political will to impose the spending cuts and tax increases necessary to rescue the Federal government from financial oblivion.

If the politicians do nothing, or offer only insubstantial reform, eventually a run on the dollar will happen as foreigners and smart Americans rush for the exits. The Federal Reserve would either then be forced to raise interest rates to a punitive level (destroying economic activity while also making deficit spending impossible) or do nothing as massive depreciation collapses the standard of living for the vast majority of Americans. And there is no out we can take. Either we take our medicine over an extended period of time or we take it all at once.

So, I've done enough talking (or typing, rather). So I ask, what do we do? What can we do?

^1: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPD...application=np , US Treasury
^2: http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt , US Treasury
^3: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/summary.pdf , Office of Management and Budget
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:05 PM Rapier is offline  
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[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
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Preach it brotha. Hell in a handbasket.


Taxing weed will be a good start.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:13 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Rapier
 
The market in California for marijuana is estimated to be worth approximately 14 billion dollars a year. Federal excise taxes generally don't exceed 20% on vice items (the highest is cigarettes at about 20%). Assuming 3 things, a Federal excise of 30% on weed, the tax won't reduce demand for marijuana (doubtful), and that the California weed market can be used as a representative sample for the rest of the country (highly doubtful), Federal revenues from weed would total approximately 30 billion dollars per year. Considering that the President's own accountants foresee the average annual deficit over the next 3 years to be 1 trillion dollars, this amounts to a 3% reduction.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:34 PM Rapier is offline  
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i just forsee america collapsing. we aren't good enough to continue going on like this for this long. we did a pretty good job considering everything the country has done but it is coming to an end. this will then be the beginning of the new world order.
Old 02-23-2010, 11:23 PM BigFuzzyArchon is offline  
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pyramid
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slightly older info but still:



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Old 02-24-2010, 01:20 AM pyramid is offline  
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[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
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We're going to have to dodge China's calls. Let the machine get it they just want their money.
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:44 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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JCviggen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapier View Post
From what I can see, this is a big fucking problem. And I seriously doubt that either party can muster the political will to impose the spending cuts and tax increases necessary to rescue the Federal government from financial oblivion.

No politician can do anything about it. They'd be a sitting duck to any opponent. All they can do is tell people everything's fine and try to postpone the inevitable until at least the next guy's watch.
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Old 03-02-2010, 01:38 PM JCviggen is offline  
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slightly older info but still:




lol
Old 03-02-2010, 03:19 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCviggen View Post
No politician can do anything about it. They'd be a sitting duck to any opponent. All they can do is tell people everything's fine and try to postpone the inevitable until at least the next guy's watch.

A high stakes game of Hot Potato with the country's future at stake.
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:20 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Guys calm down.

Obama will fundraise us out of this.

All we need to do is sell seventy trillion magazine subscriptions to china.
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:36 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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M!22
 
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Guys calm down.

Obama will fundraise us out of this.

All we need to do is sell seventy trillion magazine subscriptions to china.

I'm sure they can generate that much within the US alone if they launch a one week special where Sarah Palin shows the public everything or the president does Palin at $500 - $1000 an access.
Old 03-04-2010, 01:58 PM M!22 is offline  
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Skadebo
 
This shit worries me too. Only thing I can do is buy gold. Paper money is worthless.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:40 AM Skadebo is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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1) Roll back the Bush tax cuts
2) Roll back the freakin Reagan tax cuts
3) profit

both tax cuts were just a giant giveaway to corporations and the super-rich
Old 03-30-2010, 12:07 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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1) Roll back the Bush tax cuts
2) Roll back the freakin Reagan tax cuts
3) profit

both tax cuts were just a giant giveaway to corporations and the super-rich

You really want to have 70%+ tax brackets? I'm not a big Reagonics fan, but I don't think any income level should be taxed as heavily as we were hitting people up in the 70s.
Old 03-30-2010, 12:25 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
1) Roll back the Bush tax cuts
2) Roll back the freakin Reagan tax cuts
3) profit

both tax cuts were just a giant giveaway to corporations and the super-rich

1) The Bush tax cuts are being rolled back. The consequence is that your taxes (if you pay any) will likely increase between 4 and 6 percent. You will be losing certain credits for dependents. Furthermore, your capital gains tax rates will increase across the board; affecting anybody liquidating investment capital.

2) Targeting tax cuts should begin at Kennedy, if you want to play this game rather than Reagan and "creeping bracket" and COLA cuts.

3) You cannot simply raise significant tax revenues by hindering or over-taxing wealthy individuals. See Hauser's Law.

So now we are raising taxes and fees on almost everybody, even more so on the corporations and wealthy individuals (read: job creators) and increasing burdens on small businesses.
For further reading you should find studies on the effects of tax increases during periods of high unemployment and decreasing capital investment.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:31 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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