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The Yurk
 
Seems like a desperate attempt by Fedex.
Old 06-21-2009, 04:24 PM The Yurk is offline  
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Frenetic
 
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Originally Posted by Louche View Post
Yes, absolutely. Doesn't seem fair we have to deal with unions when our direct competition doesn't, ya know?
Alright, but you didn't answer my other question, which was why Fed Ex is under rail standards on the first place. I honestly don't know and I'd like you to explain it to me Is it because they have more planes, or is it something else? I'm having trouble believing that strong marketing would trick the law.
Old 06-21-2009, 04:52 PM Frenetic is offline  
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Intuitiv
 
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...However, I do feel a bit biased here, because Fed Ex has treated me and my mail far better than UPS ever has. They are faster, more efficient, and their customer service has always been stellar to me. I...

And they deliver on Saturday.
Old 06-21-2009, 07:03 PM Intuitiv is offline  
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Intuitiv
 
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Alright, but you didn't answer my other question, which was why Fed Ex is under rail standards on the first place. I honestly don't know and I'd like you to explain it to me Is it because they have more planes, or is it something else? I'm having trouble believing that strong marketing would trick the law.

I am curious as well. On one hand I understand that FedEx should have to play by the same rules as UPS to prevent a monopoly, on the other hand FedEx doesn't have unions - that can be a benefit and in a competitive market they should be able to utilize that and long as they are within labor laws.

That website, however, doesn't explain anything
Old 06-21-2009, 07:09 PM Intuitiv is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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I am curious as well. On one hand I understand that FedEx should have to play by the same rules as UPS to prevent a monopoly, on the other hand FedEx doesn't have unions - that can be a benefit and in a competitive market they should be able to utilize that and long as they are within labor laws.

That website, however, doesn't explain anything

Following union rules has nothing to do with monopolization. There's more than two couriers in this world, and even if there wasn't, use of a union was up to them, they can deal with it. If not, it would be government postal service VS FedEx, still not a monopoly.
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:18 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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http://www.americaneconomicalert.org...p?Prod_ID=3256 is a pretty good read on the subject. The reason FedEx is governed under different laws is because "the company was originally organized as an airline – according to FedEx"

in summary:

"The underlying reason for the perpetuation of this advantage is apparently how the corporations were organized decades ago rather than how they now operate. In other words, the past has been institutionalized at the expense of current reality. Truck drivers, and in fact all employees, should be defined by the work that they do, not by corporate history, which is completely beside the point.."
Old 06-21-2009, 08:24 PM Louche is offline  
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möbiustrip
 
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Fed Ex has treated me and my mail far better than UPS ever has. They are faster, more efficient, and their customer service has always been stellar to me. I haven't used UPS on purpose for two years now, and I have no intention on going back to them.
Ditto, but I've never had to deal with FedEx customer service, because they deliver my fucking packages.

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Have people opposed to unions ever questioned why the shift from unionized manufacturing jobs to non unionized service jobs has resulted in a stagnation or drop in the standard of living for many working class Americans? Must be because unions are evil.
A strike doesn't accomplish much when the company takes the whole factory overseas.

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http://www.americaneconomicalert.org...p?Prod_ID=3256 is a pretty good read on the subject. The reason FedEx is governed under different laws is because "the company was originally organized as an airline – according to FedEx"
He whines FedEx has "more free capital" because their drivers contract, without bennies. It begs the question why anyone would drive for FedEx if their compensation is so poor.

I haven't compared prices, delivery times, tracking features, or anything else that would arise from "more free capital." Strictly in terms of "does the box get to my doorstep hassle-free" -- as opposed to losing it, lying about delivery attempts, or making me come to the warehouse -- I've had better experience with FedEx, hands down. I feel like UPS must hire a lot more retards. No offense.

Yeah, the video looks like lawsuit material. If you aren't getting a federal loan, you aren't "getting a bailout," it's just ordinary anticompetitive lobbying. Still sucks, but not as bad.

Why isn't UPS lobbying to free itself from the red tape, instead?
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:19 PM möbiustrip is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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There's nothing wrong with unions, but the problem with unions today is they have become as corrupt as the corporations they fought against at the beginning of the labour movement, when workers abroad were genuinely taken advantage of. If unions would go back to their roots, I bet things would be better. Unions in the modern world protect the stupid and bog down industry to the point where it negatively affects the economy for everyone, and we eventually have to pay for it
The same arguments date back all the way to the beginning of the organized labor movement (in the US). They weren't true then (at least to the degree their detractors claimed) so I don't see why they should be any truer today.

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see: auto industry).
Foreign auto industries which are held up as a paragon of efficiency (especially asian manufacturers) also have a high degree of unionization. The number of union workers for GM for instance also dropped more than half from the 80's into the early 2000's.

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Where I was working, union members would fuck the dog during the week just so they could work double time on the weekends. There's a lot of stories about older union members bullying younger union members into slowing down so they wont have to work as hard. If this weren't the case, I would have no issue with unions at all. This is a problem that requires addressing.
I'm sure there are some people who take advantage of unions but if my choices are unionized or non-unionized industry I'll pick the unionized every time because it has a better result for the workers.

Last edited by Patriotic Eagle; 06-22-2009 at 11:57 AM..
Old 06-22-2009, 11:36 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Bailouts don't require money. They just require government intervention.

That's pretty stupid. All the legislation does is properly classify the Fedex workers as truck drivers instead of train conductors. It's not a bailout to make a company follow the law.
Old 06-22-2009, 11:41 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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A strike doesn't accomplish much when the company takes the whole factory overseas.
Great point. Which is why the government should be controlled by those who work for the interests of the workers instead of the corporations. If a company moves its production overseas due to a strike then the government should place heavy tariffs and/or fine the corporation until the company decides it's more profitable to work with unions and/or a union friendly company replaces them.

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Yeah, the video looks like lawsuit material. If you aren't getting a federal loan, you aren't "getting a bailout," it's just ordinary anticompetitive lobbying. Still sucks, but not as bad.
How is forcing fedex to properly classify their employees anti-competitive lobbying?

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Why isn't UPS lobbying to free itself from the red tape, instead?
Because their company is unionized and the employees like it that way and they can afford to since they usually have a higher income than Fedex.
Old 06-22-2009, 11:51 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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Link to the details of the cut? I know they cut some, but I didn't see which were cut (beyond the "viagra benefit", I'm not joking).

I did find that funny too.


I hate USAToday but it's the first link Google spit back

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...al-facts_N.htm
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:04 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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Great point. Which is why the government should be controlled by those who work for the interests of the workers instead of the corporations. If a company moves its production overseas due to a strike then the government should place heavy tariffs and/or fine the corporation until the company decides it's more profitable to work with unions and/or a union friendly company replaces them.


Often the interests of the corporations coincide with the interests of the workers.

Additionally, if government acted as you desire re: tariffs there would be no way you could afford most of the products you buy to sustain your desired lifestyle.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:07 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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möbiustrip
 
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How is forcing fedex to properly classify their employees anti-competitive lobbying?
The argument, verbatim:

"By engaging in these fictions, FedEx frees up a great deal of money to mobilize against the competition that would otherwise go to its employees in the form of wages and benefits. This pool of capital is not available to competitors"

A pro-competitive solution is freeing UPS from these self-described "onerous, impractical, but good for the worker!" regulations.

Loading, unloading, and last-mile delivery can't be outsourced, but they can be done by a chimpanzee. I think contracting is a better model in theory, and in my experience, it is superior.

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Because their company is unionized and the employees like it that way and they can afford to since they usually have a higher income than Fedex.
How will the employees like it when they get laid off?

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I'm sure there are some people who take advantage of unions but if my choices are unionized or non-unionized industry I'll pick the unionized every time because it has a better result for the workers.
I like small business where people with faces make decisions about each other, but we all shop at Wal-Mart sooner or later.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:41 PM möbiustrip is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Often the interests of the corporations coincide with the interests of the workers.
It's in the corporations best interest to spend as little as possible on their workers without impeding production. Beyond keeping profitable enough to ensure continued employment the workers and management have no common interests. Unions help ameliorate this by making the interests of the workers part of the interest of the corporation.

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Additionally, if government acted as you desire re: tariffs there would be no way you could afford most of the products you buy to sustain your desired lifestyle.
If the US still had a significant manufacturing base sure I could. The US survived fine without all the free trade agreements it has now.
Old 06-22-2009, 02:43 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
The argument, verbatim:

"By engaging in these fictions, FedEx frees up a great deal of money to mobilize against the competition that would otherwise go to its employees in the form of wages and benefits. This pool of capital is not available to competitors"

A pro-competitive solution is freeing UPS from these self-described "onerous, impractical, but good for the worker!" regulations.
The regulations are in place for the benefit of the workers. If being pro competition means screwing them over then I'm anti competition.

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Loading, unloading, and last-mile delivery can't be outsourced, but they can be done by a chimpanzee. I think contracting is a better model in theory, and in my experience, it is superior.
Good for you.

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How will the employees like it when they get laid off?
Why would they get laid off? In any case I suspect they wouldn't like it anymore than contract employees.

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I like small business where people with faces make decisions about each other, but we all shop at Wal-Mart sooner or later.
This really doesn't have anything to do with small businesses vs corporations. Small businesses can exploit their workers just as much as large ones.
Old 06-22-2009, 02:50 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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