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Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
Yes but correcting the employer-based system could be accomplished without such sweeping legislation.

EDIT: In fact, you can either contend one of two things now. Either they aim to bolster the employer-based system by imposing fines or they intend to discourage employer-based systems by forcing employers to opt for "fixed-cost" alternatives and instead boost government revenues using new fines.

The employer based system is only part of the problem. We needed something significant to deal with the issue in any serious way.
Old 03-24-2010, 10:19 AM Gibonius is offline  
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http://kiplinger.com/businessresourc...n-the-way.html
A few of the tax ramifications of the bill....

Good times ahead for the now-taxable health benefits that employers provide and also the 40% excise tax on plans costing "too much"
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:30 AM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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http://kiplinger.com/businessresourc...n-the-way.html
A few of the tax ramifications of the bill....

Good times ahead for the now-taxable health benefits that employers provide and also the 40% excise tax on plans costing "too much"

I actually like taxing health benefits, but I don't understand combining it with requiring employers to provide insurance. We should be trying to get rid of the employer based system, taxing the benefits does that, but then requiring them to provide benefits? Just weird.
Old 03-24-2010, 11:42 AM Gibonius is offline  
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So would you agree or disagree we have the best health care in the world of you can afford it?

No.

If I could afford it, I'd bring the best doctor for whatever issue there is....regardless of what country they lived in. And I can guarantee the US doesn't have the best doctors in every field.
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:44 AM Coqui is offline  
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No.

If I could afford it, I'd bring the best doctor for whatever issue there is....regardless of what country they lived in. And I can guarantee the US doesn't have the best doctors in every field.

Now you're just being asinine.
"Best system" does not mean "best doctors in every field" and you know that.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:03 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Now you're just being asinine.
"Best system" does not mean "best doctors in every field" and you know that.

That seems to be what you're implying though...that if you can afford the best, the US can give it to you.

If not the best doctors, then what? The most clean hospitals? The best hospital food? The most equipped hospitals?
Old 03-24-2010, 12:32 PM loner is offline  
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No.

If I could afford it, I'd bring the best doctor for whatever issue there is....regardless of what country they lived in. And I can guarantee the US doesn't have the best doctors in every field.

Yeah if you want your dick cut off and a pussy put there you go to sweeden.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:40 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Now you're just being asinine.
"Best system" does not mean "best doctors in every field" and you know that.

Well you put me on the spot. So I answered with an on the fly answer. I'd have to do at least a year's worth of research to determine if the US has the best doctors in enough fields to be classified as the best health care in the world if you could afford it.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:54 PM Coqui is offline  
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Quote:
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Well you put me on the spot. So I answered with an on the fly answer. I'd have to do at least a year's worth of research to determine if the US has the best doctors in enough fields to be classified as the best health care in the world if you could afford it.
I have no actual stats to back it up (and for the most part "best" is subjective anyway) but I would say that the US attracts many of the best doctors in the world simply because of all the research and technology that is developed here...not to mention the fact that they can personally make far more income than they would under a socialized system. Just ask Canada how hard it is to keep doctors from going south of the border..

edit- that alone doesn't mean we have the best healthcare in the world however...but does suggest that the best is available to those with the means to get it.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:32 PM joemama is offline  
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I have no actual stats to back it up (and for the most part "best" is subjective anyway) but I would say that the US attracts many of the best doctors in the world simply because of all the research and technology that is developed here...not to mention the fact that they can personally make far more income than they would under a socialized system. Just ask Canada how hard it is to keep doctors from going south of the border..

edit- that alone doesn't mean we have the best healthcare in the world however...but does suggest that the best is available to those with the means to get it.

They also go to Switzerland too.
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Old 03-24-2010, 02:11 PM Coqui is offline  
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
in the meter of "best available" and not "best for everybody at every level" Gibonius did not disagree with me.

and how is this best?

When a significant portion of your citizens don't have access to said service, your country does not have the best service in the world

You may have the best service for the privileged, but that is not a good measure for an entire country's healthcare system.
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Old 03-24-2010, 02:13 PM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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The best in terms of success rates and availability to those able to pay....
Just look at all the foreign nationals that came here for their surgeries and care rather than staying in their own country's system.

I contend that the rate of people coming IN for excellent practitioners far exceeds the rate of people going OUT for the same reason.

Note that I said "excellent" not "cheap"
i think that's less indicative of our healthcare 'system' and more a sign of how superior we are in other areas (research and tech etc). the people you mention, who come to america for procedures, are doing so outside the healthcare system that most people rely on.

Last edited by teh scud; 03-24-2010 at 03:10 PM..
Old 03-24-2010, 02:59 PM teh scud is offline  
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:15 PM teh scud is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
They also go to Switzerland too.

And the Swiss tend to have supplemental insurance policies to fund those who want "better" care.
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:40 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Misleading statistics.

There are a number of studies on why infant mortality comparisons with the US tend to be invalidated due to record keeping practices.

Furthermore, comparisons to Japan are disingenuous because of their dependent circumstances such as not having any army.
Additionally, Japan's economy has been stagnant as a result of their implemented policies. The phrase "lost decade" should ring a bell.
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:43 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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