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SamFarber
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post


totally worth a trillion dollars+, our national dignity and respect, thousands of american lives and a few hundred thousand iraqi lives.

And higher gas prices and the enormous drain on the economy that causes.
Old 04-01-2012, 09:22 PM SamFarber is offline  
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SamFarber
 
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and the reduction of the number of countries with insane regimes that destabilize the world. And a message to others Dont Be Dickheads.

WTF world are you living in? Iraq was quite stable.
Old 04-01-2012, 09:23 PM SamFarber is offline  
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pyramid
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and the reduction of the number of countries with insane regimes that destabilize the world. And a message to others Dont Be Dickheads.

do what now?

lol, yeah that worked perfectly...
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:25 PM pyramid is offline  
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And higher gas prices and the enormous drain on the economy that causes.

word.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:25 PM pyramid is offline  
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What "support"? The cost for buying tickets was minimal. The US supported them, too. They had driver licenses. "OMG, we gave ID to TURRURRUSTS!" Bomb a DMV.

Why would we let the rest of their organization continue to exist after they attacked us? The idea came from the leaders in Afghanistan, the organization came from there. The threat of future attacks existed there.

Last edited by Gibonius; 04-01-2012 at 09:42 PM..
Old 04-01-2012, 09:27 PM Gibonius is offline  
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and the reduction of the number of countries with insane regimes that destabilize the world. And a message to others Dont Be Dickheads.

We can make a case for moral and legal authority in taking out Saddam. I don't see how we could argue right now that it was worth it for American interests. Better to have focused on Afghanistan, the country we actually needed to deal with (fuckhead opinions like Sam's notwithstanding), and stabilize that situation before taking care of someone who was unlikely to ever be a real threat to the US.
Old 04-01-2012, 09:45 PM Gibonius is offline  
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teh_rapist
 
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and the reduction of the number of countries with insane regimes that destabilize the world. And a message to others Dont Be Dickheads.

This is the very opposite of the message that was sent. If anything, it was more like: "Here is an example of why being strong allows you to do things like starting wars that being weak does not." I.e., might makes right. In other words, "Do your best to be dickheads, it's working for us".

Ironically, I had to travel quite a bit at the time, and I distinctly remember how quickly the respect for the US was dropping, almost month to month... It still hasn't gotten back to where it was in early 2002. Afghanistan was a different story entirely, a lot of people outside the states supported that war. But not Iraq. Not even close.

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We can make a case for moral and legal authority in taking out Saddam. I don't see how we could argue right now that it was worth it for American interests. Better to have focused on Afghanistan, the country we actually needed to deal with (fuckhead opinions like Sam's notwithstanding), and stabilize that situation before taking care of someone who was unlikely to ever be a real threat to the US.

Legality is international politics is just about nonexistent. Maybe it'll change at some point, but right now, that's like making a case for the existence of God - there is just no evidence to its existence.

Moral - one might be able to argue, but all in all, I think the case would be horrendously weak. I do agree though that the best angle to look at it is from the perspective of - was it beneficial to the US. And of course it was not.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:29 PM teh_rapist is offline  
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Fuckyouformakingmeregister
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Q: How many times have two nuclear states engaged in nuclear or non-nuclear war with one another?

A:  Never.  

If you fail to see the problem with every country in the world having nukes you clearly aren`t cut out for this kind of discussion.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:30 PM Fuckyouformakingmeregister is offline  
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teh_rapist
 
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
We can make a case for moral and legal authority in taking out Saddam. I don't see how we could argue right now that it was worth it for American interests. Better to have focused on Afghanistan, the country we actually needed to deal with (fuckhead opinions like Sam's notwithstanding), and stabilize that situation before taking care of someone who was unlikely to ever be a real threat to the US.

Also very much worth noting, and never leaving out of the dialog, is the fact that the very reason the organization exists, and its early sources of funding, came from the US. Early Afghani mujahideen were funded, and from some sources - even trained - by the US. This is not to say that the invasion of afghanistan after 9/11 was not justified of course. But the organization exists because of the states, and thanks to the states, even if its eventual actions are against the states. Simple as that.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:39 PM teh_rapist is offline  
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Also very much worth noting, and never leaving out of the dialog, is the fact that the very reason the organization exists, and its early sources of funding, came from the US. Early Afghani mujahideen were funded, and from some sources - even trained - by the US. This is not to say that the invasion of afghanistan after 9/11 was not justified of course. But the organization exists because of the states, and thanks to the states, even if its eventual actions are against the states. Simple as that.

You ever read Charlie Wilson's War? Interesting book, talks a lot about this stuff and the dynamic with Pakistan.
Old 04-01-2012, 11:06 PM Gibonius is offline  
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5ive
 
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Also very much worth noting, and never leaving out of the dialog, is the fact that the very reason the organization exists, and its early sources of funding, came from the US. Early Afghani mujahideen were funded, and from some sources - even trained - by the US. This is not to say that the invasion of afghanistan after 9/11 was not justified of course. But the organization exists because of the states, and thanks to the states, even if its eventual actions are against the states. Simple as that.

I don't think AQ was ever funded by the US, but I may be misremembering Ghost Wars
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:09 PM 5ive is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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According to HardOn logic, I guess we should give every country in the world some nukes. No one would ever invade anybody, right?

Nukes meaning what? Nuclear material research? Yes whatever country wants to enter the modern era of nuclear power research should be able to do so.

FuckyouforbeingHitlerwealreadyhadoneokaythanksbye

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If you fail to see the problem with every country in the world having nukes you clearly aren`t cut out for this kind of discussion.

You don't really have any clue about this stuff do you? ZOMG NUKES! Are they going to shoot those at us from a giant cannon?

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:52 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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They can fucking withdraw from the treaty if they don't want to follow it you moron.

Same goes to Sam.

Okay so can Iran is what I am saying, you moron. I wasn't even responding to you calm your shit.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:53 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Also this is sweet. I bet when you complain that it's hot out, it's not millions of degrees

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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The bomb was designed as a 100 Megaton device, not a 50 Megaton device. ..... For the test, the Tsar had its Uranium tamper replaced with lead to reduce the maximum yield by half (To 50 Megatons).

The blast yield was equal to that of a blast of 57,000,000 Tonnes of TNT....or to put that into context: The weight of 270 Empire State Buildings worth of TNT. This makes the Tsar the most powerful nuclear device ever detonated in history. Think of the destruction at Hiroshima. The Tsar was 3800 times more powerful than Hiroshima.

The light energy released was so powerful that it was visible even at 1000km (621 miles), with cloudy skies. The shockwave was powerful enough to break windows at even up to 900 kilometres (560 miles) from the blast. The shockwave was recorded orbiting the earth 3 times. The mushroom cloud rose to an altitude of 64,000 meters (210,000 feet) before levelling out.


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Old 04-02-2012, 12:06 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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pyramid
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If you fail to see the problem with every country in the world having nukes you clearly aren`t cut out for this kind of discussion.

Because then we might need to use diplomacy to get our way instead of going team america on someone's ass?
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:43 AM pyramid is offline  
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