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LLCS GHOST
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
We can make a case for moral and legal authority in taking out Saddam. I don't see how we could argue right now that it was worth it for American interests. Better to have focused on Afghanistan, the country we actually needed to deal with (fuckhead opinions like Sam's notwithstanding), and stabilize that situation before taking care of someone who was unlikely to ever be a real threat to the US.

Saddam Hussein should have been taken out during the Gulf War. Where were you from then to 2003? It was a constant threat. Saddam Hussein was firing on our aircraft every day from '96 to '03.

The sanctions were wavering, and it was Saddam's plan to restart his wmd program when they finally collapsed. If you think a war with Iraq was avoidable, you're sadly mistaking.
Old 04-02-2012, 01:07 AM LLCS GHOST is offline  
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teh_rapist
 
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
You ever read Charlie Wilson's War? Interesting book, talks a lot about this stuff and the dynamic with Pakistan.

not all of it, but excerpts.

a lot of the other sources on it that i read were never translated into english. not specifically on the US funding of the mujahideen, but more on what the factions in afghanistan were (to say that it was a single group would be laughable), why they were who they were, and whose side(s) they were on. i think the most surprising thing that i took out of it was how large of a fraction of the population actually supported the soviets. and, of course, how politically inconvenient this was for the states. i didn't read all of charlie wilson's war, but i do remember NOT getting that impression from the parts i did read. i haven't actually sat down and compared the (what was listed as) facts in both sets of sources, that would probably be more illuminating than going by my impressions alone.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:08 AM teh_rapist is offline  
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LLCS GHOST
 
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WTF world are you living in? Iraq was quite stable.

Read Iraq's history. The incessant chaos, with coups upon coups, reminds me of Pakistan's history. So if you think Pakistan is stable, you may need to look up stable in the dictionary. Saddam Hussein had to be taken out. The fact Iraq delved into chaos is just exactly what the country has been since day one of its inception.
Old 04-02-2012, 01:11 AM LLCS GHOST is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
do what now?

lol, yeah that worked perfectly...

seems to have worked pretty well.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:12 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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teh_rapist
 
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Originally Posted by 5ive View Post
I don't think AQ was ever funded by the US, but I may be misremembering Ghost Wars

not AQ itself, but AQ didn't exist for most of the soviet war in afghanistan. it was only founded in 88-89, iirc. i do know though that it was founded, to a large degree, out of several mujahideen factions, primarily from northern afghanistan, which were for the most part the ones opposing USSR's involvement there (there were also others that were not, but that's rarely mentioned by US sources of course).

ironically enough, almost all soviet mistakes made in attempt to "win the hearts and minds" were verbatim repeated by the coalition after the invasion of afghanistan. such as male doctors entering female part of the house, etc... which, i guess, is yet another illustration of the US's complete inability to learn from its own mistakes. not surprising, but very sad.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:16 AM teh_rapist is offline  
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that's cause they weren't our mistakes the first time around :V
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:44 AM 5ive is offline  
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Fuckyouformakingmeregister
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Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
Nukes meaning what? Nuclear material research? Yes whatever country wants to enter the modern era of nuclear power research should be able to do so.

Nukes meaning nukes you fucking moron. You know exactly what I mean.

Quote:
You don't really have any clue about this stuff do you? ZOMG NUKES! Are they going to shoot those at us from a giant cannon?
Cannon? What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

You are a special kind of moron if you think every country in the world should have a stockpile of nuclear missiles. Is it that you don't think anyone would ever use them? Or, are you confident that every country could guard its missiles appropriately? Or, do you just not value human life and/or the future of the earth?
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:31 PM Fuckyouformakingmeregister is offline  
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Fuckyouformakingmeregister
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Because then we might need to use diplomacy to get our way instead of going team america on someone's ass?

So, to be clear, you think that a likely consequence of every country in the world having a stockpile of nuclear missiles would be no war and increased diplomacy? Is that because large portions of the world would be vacant of human life?
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:34 PM Fuckyouformakingmeregister is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances69 View Post
Morel like US couldn't do shit about USSR, but they can punk Iran around if they want to.

Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCS GHOST View Post
Read Iraq's history. The incessant chaos, with coups upon coups, reminds me of Pakistan's history. So if you think Pakistan is stable, you may need to look up stable in the dictionary. Saddam Hussein had to be taken out. The fact Iraq delved into chaos is just exactly what the country has been since day one of its inception.

Read ANY history you ding dong. What happens to Empires who overstretch their resources, driven by inexplicable ambition and greed?

If you want to keep us safe then do that. Don't go after the brown people - you said it yourself, they've been knee-deep in shit for eons. What the fuck are we going to do other than piss them off and encourage their kids to grow up hating the west?
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:35 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuckyouformakingmeregister View Post
So, to be clear, you think that a likely consequence of every country in the world having a stockpile of nuclear missiles would be no war and increased diplomacy? Is that because large portions of the world would be vacant of human life?

Why is Iran more likely to attack Israel, than Israel is to attack Iran?

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Old 04-02-2012, 02:37 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
No dumbo it's like prosecuting people by using "precogs" like in that stupid Tom Cruise movie.... for doing the same thing as other people are doing who you are not prosecuting



Great and Israel of course is NOT occupying three areas that were never given to them in the first place They hate muslims yet they can have nukes if they want to. For no other reason than we've been in bed with them for half a century.

Israel is like a shitty girlfriend. We get nothing but grief and expenditures from it, yet we're too pathetic to break up and say "get fucked, I've had enough of your problems"

The Pentium M and Core series architecture came from Israel. So there is something.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:10 PM ytzombe is offline  
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joemama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
Why is Iran more likely to attack Israel, than Israel is to attack Iran?

Israel is less likely to attack if Iran gives up on making nukes.

But of course telling you that does as much good as telling my dog..
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:25 PM joemama is offline  
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joemama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
Exactly



Read ANY history you ding dong. What happens to Empires who overstretch their resources, driven by inexplicable ambition and greed?

If you want to keep us safe then do that. Don't go after the brown people - you said it yourself, they've been knee-deep in shit for eons. What the fuck are we going to do other than piss them off and encourage their kids to grow up hating the west?
Where are your threads raging about what your motherland did in Afghanistan, and is currently doing in Chechnya?
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:27 PM joemama is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
what the fuck does that matter? They knew they hid them. They knew they were violating the cease fire agreements in doing so an also in targeting our aircraft.

They fucked up. They got their asses handed to them. They kept fucking up and it happened again..

So sad too bad.

The insane and dehumanizing logic of the imperialist, where realpolitik garbage (that being pap fed to them by their peers and aped in a attempt to appear realistic or intelligent) is substituted for an understanding or empathy for the victims of their own murderous invasions.
Old 04-02-2012, 03:35 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCS GHOST View Post
Read Iraq's history. The incessant chaos, with coups upon coups, reminds me of Pakistan's history. So if you think Pakistan is stable, you may need to look up stable in the dictionary. Saddam Hussein had to be taken out. The fact Iraq delved into chaos is just exactly what the country has been since day one of its inception.

Why did he have to be taken out? The Iraq war showed how weak the army was, there wasn't any danger of a invasion, and there was no major biological or chemical infrastructure. The US could have even recruited Saddam as part of its "anti terrorist" coalition (a group for killing or suppressing forces opposed to the US or its client states).

There was no reason for the invasion of Iraq beyond imperialist experiments in capitalist democracy.
Old 04-02-2012, 03:46 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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