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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCS GHOST View Post
No. The reason was Saddam Hussein was a threat to our national security and world peace.

No he wasn't.
Old 04-05-2012, 12:29 PM Gibonius is offline  
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he was boxed into his no fly zone not doing shit because we neutered him 10 years prior.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:37 PM Why_Ask_Why is offline  
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he was boxed into his no fly zone not doing shit because we neutered him 10 years prior.
He wasn't an immediate threat to the continental U.S. at the time, but he potentially could have been to our forces In Afghanistan and other places in the ME. But then again "national security" doesn't just cover threats on our own soil...if that was the case then the CIA wouldn't exist.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:50 PM joemama is offline  
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he wasn't potentially anything. it's acknowledged fact we acted on bad information from a dodgy informant. 1 scuzbag altered history that drastically and cost over 100k lives. merica, fuck yeah
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:31 PM Why_Ask_Why is offline  
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Just as I thought...sometimes I wish you weren't so predictable.

Of course the Iraqi military commanders who retreated after losing most of the their forces knew that nothing had been won, but when Saddam gets on state owned tv and tells the people about the great victory he won for them....why wouldn't they believe? I'm sure years later there were many who had doubts after reading/hearing non-Iraqi accounts of the war, but the majority still believed the war was won and the pullout from Kuwait was voluntary.

To be quite honest, in my opinion the only thing the coalition won in that war was to liberate Kuwait and restore the government. I think the uprising in northern Iraq should have been supported at the time, but then again it's much too easy to revise history by saying that "it would have been better if this were done and that hadn't been done"
That's a lot of right there. I don't know is it just flat out fucking moronic, or are you seriously patronizing this hard. Yeah they all have IQ a bit under the 80 range, they actually lack the cognitive skills to realize what losing a fucking war means.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:46 PM Straw Man is offline  
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Originally Posted by LLCS GHOST View Post
Saddam Hussein intentionally led the international community to believe he had wmd. It was in his interests to make it look like he did. Everyone thought he did because that's what he was letting on.
No, not everyone thought that. Just gullible morons like you. I mean, you could be themorlock and still think they have them. You're actually not that moronic but a mere runnerup.
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So I'm just curious, how did you know he didn't have them?
There's something about launching wars that kind of demands some actual concrete evidence. You probably don't think that? How about we find out do you have WMD's and liberate the fuck out of you?
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And anyways, wmd was by no means the sole reason for the war.
Now you're just being plain fucking dishonest. Your voted representatives went about their way to lie the UN about these WMD's.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:49 PM Straw Man is offline  
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I bet they had rape rooms too...
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:50 PM Straw Man is offline  
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Originally Posted by LLCS GHOST View Post

But there's no questioning the results now. Besides Iraq having free democratic elections, the democracy has spread just as Bush predicted. He helped start the Arab Spring. Don't tell me it would have happened without the Iraq war.

And democracies are more likely to join the international community and be less aggressive.
You're revoltingly dumb, and I don't understand why anyone should even dignify your shit with a response. For the record, the so-called arab spring started in Tunisia, and if you're going to start crediting the arab spring as something positive through your fat pigfucking america-glasses, be sure to tell everyone how most of the regimes toppled were actually supported by western powers, and how in actuality the so-called arab spring is actually more an islamic revolution (or the second coming of it) above all. Yeah they're dethroning tyrannies, one big motivation for dethroning them is that they leech upon those people and use the money of a common man to support war campaigns and western imperialism.

Democracy has spread in the form of islam, is that what you're saying?
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:58 PM Straw Man is offline  
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I bet they had rape rooms too...
Who doesn't?

Oh, and your "launching wars requires concrete evidence" totally ignores the fact that the first war in 91 (which you probably thought was immoral as well) was never really over. You probably also don't recognize the authority of the UN either (and in some cases I don't as well) but firing at U.S. planes enforcing a no-fly zone is kinda sorta a declaration of war..
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:35 PM joemama is offline  
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That's a lot of right there. I don't know is it just flat out fucking moronic, or are you seriously patronizing this hard. Yeah they all have IQ a bit under the 80 range, they actually lack the cognitive skills to realize what losing a fucking war means.
Who's talking about IQ? A fuckload of people with very high IQ's were led to believe that Iraq had WMD's, yet you find it hard to fathom that a large number of Iraqi people thought they won Gulf war 1? Like I said earlier, you have the state controlling the media...and the media telling people "it was a great victory"....the government is still intact and there are no foreign troops roaming the streets and the bombing has stopped. The natural conclusion is that the "foreign invaders" had been driven away by the "glorious revolutionary guard" or some shit. Like I said, many of them found out the truth in later years...but there were celebrations in the streets back then.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:49 PM joemama is offline  
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There's something about launching wars that kind of demands some actual concrete evidence. You probably don't think that? How about we find out do you have WMD's and liberate the fuck out of you?

Now you're just being plain fucking dishonest. Your voted representatives went about their way to lie the UN about these WMD's.

Here's your problem. You think the U.S. is all-knowing. It isn't. It can't be. That's where the tough decisions have to be made. They have to be made on the fact our intelligence agencies can't possibly know everything that goes on inside any given country.

WMD was simply the case we had to go on to present to the UN and other people who don't understand the war was necessary regardless. The UN failed in Iraq. It was just buying Saddam Hussein more time.

I've also seen it argued that we should have dealt with the Iraq problem covertly. This ignores history because we did. The CIA tried to set up coups (a la opposition groups in Iraq) in the mid-90s. All of them were squashed by Saddam. Again, another victory against the U.S. for him, except this time they were real.

You're focusing way too much on the wmd aspect, and ignoring the fact there was a problem there that had to be dealt with.

Now look at what our pathetic intelligence agency is saying about Iran. They're trying to lead policy by saying Iran is by no means trying to obtain a nuclear weapon. This is just ridiculous. Everyone knows they are. Containment failed in Iraq. You have to admit that much. It will fail with Iran. It's just going to buy them more time which will inevitably lead to a nuclear armed Iran.
Old 04-05-2012, 04:16 PM LLCS GHOST is offline  
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Here's your problem. You think the U.S. is all-knowing. It isn't. It can't be. That's where the tough decisions have to be made.

It's not hard NOT to go to war.

I'm glad you realize any country is capable of making mistakes, which is why generally it's accepted to ERROR ON THE SAFE SIDE. For example starting a war with a country so they don't start one is pretty fucking stupid. In real life we call that picking a fight.

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:22 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCS GHOST View Post

But there's no questioning the results now. Besides Iraq having free democratic elections, the democracy has spread just as Bush predicted. He helped start the Arab Spring. Don't tell me it would have happened without the Iraq war.

And democracies are more likely to join the international community and be less aggressive.

Pakistan signed a constitution in 1973 On the other hand whatever Iraq was up to was supported by us.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:22 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Pakistan signed a constitution in 1973 On the other hand whatever Iraq was up to was supported by us.
Supported? The only thing the U.S. supported was Saddam's opposition to Iran. The "we have no opinion" quote that you people like to use was from a single ambassador...not someone who makes U.S. policy...and was in reference to the exact border between Iraq and Kuwait...not about Saddam going apeshit on all his neighbors.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:28 PM joemama is offline  
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Supported? The only thing the U.S. supported was Saddam's opposition to Iran. The "we have no opinion" quote that you people like to use was from a single ambassador...not someone who makes U.S. policy...and was in reference to the exact border between Iraq and Kuwait...not about Saddam going apeshit on all his neighbors.


You should actually read about their history one day


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Iraq invaded Iran, first attacking Mehrabad Airport of Tehran and then entering the oil-rich Iranian land of Khuzestan, which also has a sizable Arab minority, on 22 September 1980 and declared it a new province of Iraq. With the support of the Arab states, the United States, and Europe, and heavily financed by the Arab states of the Persian Gulf, Saddam Hussein had become "the defender of the Arab world" against a revolutionary Iran. The only exception was The Soviet Union, who initially refused to supply Iraq on the basis of Neutrality in the conflict

...


Iraq quickly found itself bogged down in one of the longest and most destructive wars of attrition of the 20th century. During the war, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iranian forces fighting on the southern front and Kurdish separatists who were attempting to open up a northern front in Iraq with the help of Iran. These chemical weapons were developed by Iraq from materials and technology supplied primarily by West German companies as well as [50] the Reagan administration of the United States which also supplied Iraq with "satellite photos showing Iranian deployments"[51] and advised Hussein to bomb civilian targets in Tehran and other Iranian cities.[52] France sold 25 billion dollars worth arms to Saddam.[43]

Saddam reached out to other Arab governments for cash and political support during the war, particularly after Iraq's oil industry severely suffered at the hands of the Iranian navy in the Persian Gulf. Iraq successfully gained some military and financial aid, as well as diplomatic and moral support, from the Soviet Union, China, France, and the United States, which together feared the prospects of the expansion of revolutionary Iran's influence in the region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein
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