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SamFarber
 
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Originally Posted by Forever Domon View Post

Thanks.
Old 03-03-2012, 06:12 PM SamFarber is offline  
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joemama
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Why they should - same reason as Israel or United States

Why they shouldn't - YOUR TURN


That's where we are if you want to break this down. I'm actually waiting for YOU to tell me why they SHOULD NOT. Your reasoning is "because they are a crazy country" - that magical "they" which is closely related to "you know"
Can you please quote the post where I said "they are a crazy country"...it should be easy to do since it would have been long past the edit limit. You started this thread asking a question which several people have answered with their opinion....yet you provide no intelligent rebuttal.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:15 PM joemama is offline  
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teh_rapist
 
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I don't think a pre-emptive military strike on Iran (by anyone) is a good idea, and I'm pretty sure the Whitehouse feels the same way...but on the other hand, taking military action completely off the table weakens the opposition (which isn't just Israel/U.S. as many would like to believe) and is pretty much just saying "we give up"..

i am pretty sure that lifting sanctions here would signify "we give up". saying "we will not attack a fourth country in the last decade" is not a sign of weakness.

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The bottom line is this: if Iran really only wants nuclear power and has nothing to hide....follow the rules, allow inspectors and basically do everything needed to get sanctions lifted. But of course the sanctions give the current administration in Iran an external "enemy" to take the blame for everything that Iranian citizens are upset about..

to start with - i don't doubt that it's a weapons program. but besides that:

on paper, this makes sense, but there are several issues even with international oversight:

1. It is a nation's right to not allow IAEA inspectors. it is of course other nations' right to impose sanctions in response to that, but still, one doesn't actually HAVE to allow IAEA inspectors in (not doing so, of course, may violate certain treaties).
2. There are PLENTY of nuclear facilities in many nations, particularly in the US (due to the size of its military-industrial complex) off-limits to international inspectors. Often that is for no other reason other than the facilities' locations - many of them are surrounded by sensitive military equipment (like naval reactor prototypes - also HEU, by the way, naval reactors are too small to work on 5% fuel), and are off-limits to IAEA.
3. There are probably economic reasons for reducing international oversight as well - i.e., if your facility is less safe, it's probably cheaper to run. But you don't wanna show an unsafe facility to an inspector team.

To sum it up - IAEA is more of a resource than a watchdog in the modern world. Countries themselves decide what to show and not show, and other countries decide what to do about it. Sanctions is one of the options. Export control is another.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:18 PM teh_rapist is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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err. noones talking about military action?

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The president is posting in this thread?

Are you guys really that stupid?

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Old 03-03-2012, 06:18 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
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Quote:
It urged the country to reconsider the construction of a research reactor moderated by heavy water and to promptly ratify and implement in full the Additional Protocol to NPT which affords inspectors greater rights of access and added authority to use advanced technologies to track that nuclear materials are not being diverted and that there are no clandestine, proscribed nuclear activities in a state.
Quote:
“I was assured to hear Iran here saying that they would continue to cooperate with the Agency,” he added, calling on the country to resume negotiations with the European Union (EU), which has been seeking a diplomatic solution for the past year.
So we should totally bomb the shit out of them.

AMERICA! FUCK YEA!
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:20 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
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Can you please quote the post where I said "they are a crazy country"...it should be easy to do since it would have been long past the edit limit. You started this thread asking a question which several people have answered with their opinion....yet you provide no intelligent rebuttal.

Once again

Why they should - same reason as USA, Pakistan, Israel or Russia

Why they shouldn't - YOUR TURN. Because they didn't follow an agreement they don't actually have to follow?
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:22 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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look at the date of the article, its 7 years old. Theyre still in noncompliance.
Old 03-03-2012, 06:23 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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joemama
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So we should totally bomb the shit out of them.

AMERICA! FUCK YEA!
Since nobody in this thread is taking your bait, maybe you should direct your retardation to the Whitehouse? Unless of course that would be considered racist..
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:23 PM joemama is offline  
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TUT RAGE!!!
 
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look at the date of the article, its 7 years old. Theyre still in noncompliance.

AWWW SHIT NONCOMPLIANCE UP IN THIS BITCH!
Old 03-03-2012, 06:27 PM TUT RAGE!!! is offline  
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Originally Posted by Forever Domon View Post
err. noones talking about military action?

THEY SHOULD JUST SEND ME, IM SO HIGH SPEED I CAN INVADE IRAN AND FUCK UP NUTJOB UP BY MY SELF, BOOM PACK UR BAGS WARS OVER FELLERS
Old 03-03-2012, 06:28 PM TUT RAGE!!! is offline  
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joemama
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Once again

Why they should - same reason as USA, Pakistan, Israel or Russia

Why they shouldn't - YOUR TURN. Because they didn't follow an agreement they don't actually have to follow?
I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what has your panties in a twist. Sanctions? No that can't be it since you directed everyone (twice) to lap up everything teh rapist said as gospel...and he thinks sanctions are well within our rights. Military action? I don't see anyone in this thread (other than Obama in an old article) mentioning that or even saying it's a good idea. I can only speak for myself, but I'm pretty sure that how I feel about Iran having/not having nukes makes fuck all difference to what happens or doesn't happen. So what exactly are you looking for.. everyone to agree with your retardation and form a hundred man march on the Whitehouse?
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:29 PM joemama is offline  
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Since nobody in this thread is taking your bait, maybe you should direct your retardation to the Whitehouse? Unless of course that would be considered racist..

You're taking my bait just fine. You're just out of responses about why they shouldn't that doesn't end up sounding ignorant or racist.

I know ultimately changing the mind of one sheep isn't going to matter, i just wanted to reaffirm my own beliefs for personal edification. Being scared of Iran is silly and there is nothing we can do without actually becoming the aggressor. Maybe now you understand this, maybe you don't - doesn't matter. I just hope our leadership does.

I know Obama is better than that.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:32 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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joemama
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You're taking my bait just fine. You're just out of responses about why they shouldn't that doesn't end up sounding ignorant or racist.

I know ultimately changing the mind of one sheep isn't going to matter, i just wanted to reaffirm my own beliefs for personal edification. Being scared of Iran is silly and there is nothing we can do without actually becoming the aggressor. Maybe now you understand this, maybe you don't - doesn't matter. I just hope our leadership does.

I know Obama is better than that.
So you're an Obama fan, yet started a thread to bait people into ripping into something he said. You're more ed than I thought..
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:36 PM joemama is offline  
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So you're an Obama fan, yet started a thread to bait people into ripping into something he said. You're more ed than I thought..


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Old 03-03-2012, 07:12 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Okay so according to you "winning" areas is fair and square. So why can't Iran win some? Israel didn't just stop at defending their land, they took the next step. And the next and one more after that.

We can do all the same things against Korea and Pakistan as we can against Iran We're just being selectively uneven about it.

Also please tell me some of these crazy things Iran has done. Who decides they are the craziest country? Are they crazier than we are? How many countries are they occupying - how many military bases do they have all over the god damn world?

Why is "winning" in quotes? The Israelis won those sections in wars, have we not done the same? And I think the world is to a point where we don't want ANY countries winning more land, because that means that there is MORE WAR.

We CAN"T do the same thing against Pakistan and N. Korea, as they already have the nukes, ain't shit we can do about it now. Should we have stopped Pakistan, when they were first starting? Yeah, probably. But Pakistan's nukes were in response to India's way back in what, the late 70s? And they did it in secret. Not a ton we could do about it after the fact. Wasn't a whole lot we could do about N. Korea either, but we did take some steps.

Basically, the Middle East is a hot-bed of instability and fighting, especially in this day and age, and it probably isn't a good idea for any of those countries to have nuclear power. Needless to say, they probably do and will. IIRC, there was a pakistani scientist who sold nuclear arms secrets to N. Korea and Iran.

All it takes is one false move by someone, whether it be right or wrong, and we have a huge clusterfuck. If one nuke goes off, anywhere, at least one more is going off. Thats the only way you can retaliate against a nuclear attack - in kind. And odds are, if that happens, it will be more than one. Say Iran goes sideways in the next regime and they have nukes. Odds are they will be used against us, or Israel. They're not just gonna detonate one, because both of us can respond in kind, on a massive level. they're going to go off with both barrels, attempting to take out entire countries. And if its a terrorist act instead? That ends up worse.

World was a lot simpler when it was just us pointing them at the USSR and vice-versa, because at least that was mutually assured destruction. Meaning, nukes weren't about to start flying.
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