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Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinlife View Post
He made a decision and stuck to it like a good leader...courage to follow through isn't something that can be learned

One can question the wisdom of his decisions though..
Old 03-21-2010, 08:37 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Bukkakeboy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinlife View Post
He made a decision and stuck to it like a good leader...courage to follow through isn't something that can be learned

This is not the measure of a good leader.

A good leader makes _good_ decisions.

A good leader doesn't use bad decisions that hurt "his people" to line his own pockets.

By your definition any crazed dictator with an infallible belief in himself is a good leader.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:18 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by Bukkakeboy View Post
This is not the measure of a good leader.

A good leader makes _good_ decisions.

A good leader doesn't use bad decisions that hurt "his people" to line his own pockets.

By your definition any crazed dictator with an infallible belief in himself is a good leader.

I don't argue against the notion that he made bad decisions but to claim that it was just to line his pockets is utterly stupid. It's like you're suggesting that he actually agreed with the opposite of everything he did but made his decisions because he was evil and greedy. That is fucking moronic every time regardless of which side it comes from.

He wasn't evil, he was wrong.
Old 03-22-2010, 01:24 AM SemperFly is offline  
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wwilliam54
 
I have to agree, he was just stupid.
Dick Cheney was the evil overlord of the USA for 8 years.
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:53 AM wwilliam54 is offline  
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wwilliam54
 
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:53 AM wwilliam54 is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
psst, most of the insurgents in iraq were not iraqis

Maybe most of the insurgents whos primary goal was attacking US forces. The vast majority of violence was native Iraqi on native Iraqi.
Old 03-22-2010, 07:10 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Just got back from seeing "Green Zone"...pretty good movie. I can't wait until more people see this and think it's a recreation of actual events. Of course without giving the story away to people who haven't seen the movie...I can say that the scenario seems plausible to those who didn't follow the actual events too closely. The pre-invasion Iraq WMD intel was bad no question about it, but the of this movie is pure Hollywood.

Uh having read the off wikipedia it reads exactly like what actually happened? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo
Old 03-22-2010, 07:17 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by lostinlife View Post
He made a decision and stuck to it like a good leader...courage to follow through isn't something that can be learned
You heard it here folks, stick to your guns and it basically doesn't matter how many people you kill, you're a good guy!
Old 03-22-2010, 07:18 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
I don't argue against the notion that he made bad decisions but to claim that it was just to line his pockets is utterly stupid. It's like you're suggesting that he actually agreed with the opposite of everything he did but made his decisions because he was evil and greedy. That is fucking moronic every time regardless of which side it comes from.

He wasn't evil, he was wrong.

Actually he was/is evil. He probably didn't understand the full consequences of what he was doing or why it was evil but that doesn't excuse him.
Old 03-22-2010, 07:23 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Bush was at least as smart as the average person, I don't understand why many people constantly claim he was some simpleton being manipulated by Dick Cheney (not that he wasn't being manipulated to some degree) or was incapable of evaluating the evidence in front of him. Maybe it's because they identify with him on some level and don't want to think of themselves as capable of making the same decisions or admit their responsibility in the war.
Old 03-22-2010, 07:27 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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joemama
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Uh having read the off wikipedia it reads exactly like what actually happened? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo
You haven't seen the movie yet...no mention of British involvement or any "secret memo" in the movie at all. I'll be the first to agree that the whole WMD thing stunk (but still think military intervention in Iraq was inevitable at some point) but the pl0t of this movie plays like something cooked up on one of the many conspiracy websites. Still entertaining though...as long as the live action "shaky camera" style doesn't make you seasick.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:35 AM joemama is offline  
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bingstudent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
I don't argue against the notion that he made bad decisions but to claim that it was just to line his pockets is utterly stupid. It's like you're suggesting that he actually agreed with the opposite of everything he did but made his decisions because he was evil and greedy. That is fucking moronic every time regardless of which side it comes from.

He wasn't evil, he was wrong.

I don't think that Bush agreed with the opposite of everything the administration did (obviously huge portions of the administration was absolutely delusional, example: "they will great us as liberators," "it could last six days, six weeks, I doubt six months") ... but that doesn't mean the prospect of plopping down some US oil wells and fat PMC kickbacks didn't help motivate the decision to invade as well.
Old 03-22-2010, 12:59 PM bingstudent is offline  
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#162  

Bukkakeboy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
I don't argue against the notion that he made bad decisions but to claim that it was just to line his pockets is utterly stupid. It's like you're suggesting that he actually agreed with the opposite of everything he did but made his decisions because he was evil and greedy. That is fucking moronic every time regardless of which side it comes from.

He wasn't evil, he was wrong.

Ok, that came out wrong. He didn't just do it to line his pockets.

I honestly believe he got carried away by propaganda and a lust for war to go into iraq, but once that became the way they used that opportunity for all it was worth to retain a hold on power through fear and to funnel money from the american people to friends/special interests.

Cost+

nuff said
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:49 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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Bukkakeboy
 
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
You haven't seen the movie yet...no mention of British involvement or any "secret memo" in the movie at all. I'll be the first to agree that the whole WMD thing stunk (but still think military intervention in Iraq was inevitable at some point) but the pl0t of this movie plays like something cooked up on one of the many conspiracy websites. Still entertaining though...as long as the live action "shaky camera" style doesn't make you seasick.

a) inevitable at some point is a retarded statement.

b) elaborate on why it was inevitable
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:51 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Quote:
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a) inevitable at some point is a retarded statement.

b) elaborate on why it was inevitable

Why make 2 points for just one point?
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:37 PM Coqui is offline  
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