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GhEttOrAiD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekilljoydammit View Post
Enh... ok, I'll actually give a decent response, though I'm not a BMW guy. But you bill these things as the ultimate driving machine and you should take it seriously. E30 had the S14, basically a productionized version of the M12/7 Formula 2 mill. The E34 M5 was running the S38, derived from the M88 from the M1 supercar, and the M88 itself was a productionized version of a racing motor. The E46 was running the S54 which should need no introduction and the E92 had the S65, an evolution of the M3 GTRs purpose built race engine. The S85 V10 from the E-whatever M5/M6 belongs in the same sentence too. And then you have the S52 from the E36 M3 which has... what, a different crank and cams compared to the normal version? They really phoned it in.

I'm not touching on the rest of the cars; I am not educated on BMW stuff enough to give details or... well, care.

Of course I would prefer to have a twitchy, temperamental, high output high maintenance top-to-bottom purpose-built ///M motor. The Americans weren't ready for it. It wouldn't run up to spec on our shitty tainted fuel. It wouldn't meet emissions standards. The cost to produce them would be too high. The warranty claims/lemon laws would make it cost-prohibitive. Amerifats are neglectful of their cars AND lawsuit-happy. BMW pulled a fast one and gave us a lower end motor to maximize profits...

WHATEVER the reason...It's still unfair to call the S52 a shit motor. You're talking about making improvements to a motor that, even without those alterations, is better than the crap being pumped out by other automakers at the time.

Quote:
S52 (North American Market)[edit]
The S52 is a higher performance version of the M52 which was developed for the North American E36 M3. The S52 was a lower cost alternative to the S50B32 engine used for the E36 M3 produced for the rest of the world, which was based on the S50B30 rather than the M52.

Differences between the M52 and S52 engines[edit]
The North American-spec powerplant, known as the S52, is based closely on the US production M52 engine. Like that motor, the S52 is a six-cylinder with an iron block, The same aluminum head as the M52, with two-stage VANOS variable valve timing on the intake strokes. Unique to the S52 is a bore of 86.4 mm (3.4 in) and stroke of 89.6 mm (3.5 in) for a total displacement of 3,152 cc. The engine is rated at 240 hp (179 kW) at 6,000 rpm and 236 lbft (320 Nm) of torque at 3,800 rpm.=[9]

In addition to the larger displacement, the S52 utilizes the following special M components:

Piston Rings
Revised valve springs
Lighter, hollow camshafts with more lift and duration
Free-flowing exhaust system[citation needed]
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:23 PM GhEttOrAiD is offline  
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GhEttOrAiD
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Also, if my '00 had shipped with an S54 as the eurofags (and 01+ Z3 M cars) were given

..

I would be priced out! I wouldn't have this car. I would have, at best, an E36 M3. Or an E39 540i Sport.

The S54 models, the 01+02 cars in decent condition are MINIMUM 15 grand

http://www.mroadsterbuyersguide.com/
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:27 PM GhEttOrAiD is offline  
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mekilljoydammit
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Ok, E36 was made here from what, 92-2000? Let's look at other automakers releasing 6s about equivalent to the S52; call it about 220-240hp and about 3-3.5L

Acura Legend C32A at 230hp
Toyota 2JZ-GE at 220
Mitsubishi 6G72 at 222.
Nissan VG30DE at 222
Chevy LQ1 making 215 (okay I cheated a few hp there)

In a lot of cases these are the budget versions of the motors too, most of the Japanese 6s there had turbo versions. The S52 was slightly better than mediocre. They put bigger cams in than others because it was supposed to be sporty or it would have been right on par or worse than its equivalents.

I couldn't care less if it would have priced you out if it were better. I don't give a damn if BMW had their reasons. It's still the worst M3, and definitely the least set apart from the mundane 3s.
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:51 PM mekilljoydammit is offline  
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It's not just about peak power output
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:57 PM GhEttOrAiD is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekilljoydammit View Post
Ok, E36 was made here from what, 92-2000? Let's look at other automakers releasing 6s about equivalent to the S52; call it about 220-240hp and about 3-3.5L

Acura Legend C32A at 230hp
Toyota 2JZ-GE at 220
Mitsubishi 6G72 at 222.
Nissan VG30DE at 222
Chevy LQ1 making 215 (okay I cheated a few hp there)

In a lot of cases these are the budget versions of the motors too, most of the Japanese 6s there had turbo versions. The S52 was slightly better than mediocre. They put bigger cams in than others because it was supposed to be sporty or it would have been right on par or worse than its equivalents.

I couldn't care less if it would have priced you out if it were better. I don't give a damn if BMW had their reasons. It's still the worst M3, and definitely the least set apart from the mundane 3s.

Also, are you ever going to actually state WHY the S52 is bad? What are your problems with it, specifically? I don't accept "there was a better motor they should have used" as a valid reason...
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:59 PM GhEttOrAiD is offline  
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#35  

mekilljoydammit
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Point out where I called the S52 a shit motor. Point it out. I said it's slightly better than the cheap NA versions of several contemporaries that also had turbo versions... isn't that kinda damning by faint praise? Just because I said it's the worst M3 engine doesn't make it terrible. It just makes it underwhelming compared to every other M3.
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Old 10-22-2014, 02:32 PM mekilljoydammit is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekilljoydammit View Post
Point out where I called the S52 a shit motor. Point it out. I said it's slightly better than the cheap NA versions of several contemporaries that also had turbo versions... isn't that kinda damning by faint praise? Just because I said it's the worst M3 engine doesn't make it terrible. It just makes it underwhelming compared to every other M3.

Uh..

Okay... I'll rephrase... What makes it the worst M3 motor? What are you basing this on? What makes you say it is "underwhelming?"

I can't argue against whatever ridiculous point you've failed (and are now refusing) to make, post, after post, after post...
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:03 PM GhEttOrAiD is offline  
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#37  

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And then... lets jump back to the topic of the OP...

It's an E36 M3 (the one that is "underwhelming compared to every other M3.") with a few grand of bolt ons and weight reduction...
...
beating the latest and greatest M(4)

Oops!
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:15 PM GhEttOrAiD is offline  
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Originally Posted by GhEttOrAiD View Post
Uh..

Okay... I'll rephrase... What makes it the worst M3 motor? What are you basing this on? What makes you say it is "underwhelming?"

I can't argue against whatever ridiculous point you've failed (and are now refusing) to make, post, after post, after post...

It's funny, I read the words, but all that comes to mind is the sound of a porn starlet gagging when trying to deep throat.
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:53 PM Jehannum is offline  
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#39  

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Originally Posted by Jehannum View Post
It's funny, I read the words, but all that comes to mind is the sound of a porn starlet gagging when trying to deep throat.

Fuck out of here shit for brains

Is your wife planning to hire a surrogate non-dickless father to give your kids the birds and the bees chat? No sense in them being warped into depraved sick s like dear ol dad
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:59 PM GhEttOrAiD is offline  
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Fuck out of here shit for brains

Is your wife planning to hire a surrogate non-dickless father to give your kids the birds and the bees chat? No sense in them being warped into depraved sick s like dear ol dad

Real life picture of your wife:


Did you pick butter or vaseline for her "lipstick" today?
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:17 PM Jehannum is offline  
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Fuck out of here shit for brains

Is your wife planning to hire a surrogate non-dickless father to give your kids the birds and the bees chat? No sense in them being warped into depraved sick s like dear ol dad

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Old 10-22-2014, 06:30 PM GhEttOrAiD is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jehannum View Post
Real life picture of your wife:


Did you pick butter or vaseline for her "lipstick" today?

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Old 10-22-2014, 06:30 PM GhEttOrAiD is offline  
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tegandje
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S52's are pretty great. Will keep up w/ the much more expensive S50 + S54 under 100 MPH. Anything twisty will see vary comparable numbers due to the torque being offered so low and so easily usable. Similar 1/4 numbers between euro and US spec. In a race to 60, they aren't that far apart either.
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:34 PM tegandje is offline  
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At least poster has bank to go back to.

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This poster goes back to "Bank of Mom and Dad" to whine about parking in the garage.
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:52 PM Jehannum is offline  
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