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ephekt
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
I think his point was that you don't seem concerned by millions of angry bigots on the other side.
What would those speaking out against the pastor be displaying bigotry towards?

I thought it was pretty obvious that I was only addressing those employing hatred/scare tactics. There are no doubt idiots on either side, but only one is employing underhanded tactics to try and get a group's rights taken away. I don't, for example, see flyer calling the pastor a terrorist or tyrant or Facebooks rallying support to silence the pastor, while several exist for the opposite side, with many posts supporting - to paraphrase "rounding up the terrorists (i.e., Muslims) and putting them in concentration camps." http://i.imgur.com/QC1E9.jpg

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Sure the Quaran burning thing is silly...but nobody seems to want to address exactly why a General and the U.S. president felt compelled to weigh in on the issue...or even why this is much bigger deal than it should be.
It's not exactly rocket science why those with vested interest in the success of our military/lives of our soldiers would speak up regarding issues that affect those interests. But as I said, neither have made - cannot make - official statements in support of the ban, so it's pretty clear why they'd focus on the legal issue and troop safety.
Old 09-10-2010, 04:06 PM ephekt is offline  
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missed the last few posts(too many quotes) but...


If this was a flag being burned then then most people in this thread would be arguing 180 the other way.

It's sad that even if the guy is perceived to be a religiotard, that he should give up his rights to free speech because Violent People that like to behead others for writing books they dont like will be upset. And GASP will once again incite followers of their religion into committing more violence.

Balls, i guess we should just tuck them politely out of the way.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:35 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ephekt View Post
I believe it actually existed prior to 9/11, but regardless it was never an issue until Christian pundits decided to turn it into the culture war issue du jour a few months ago.
you'd be wrong here. the building in question was the burlington coat factory prior to the 9/11 attacks, and was purchased relatively recently by the developers.

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Suffice it to say that the traditionalist view of a single, cohesive culture has been thoroughly refuted by empirical sociology.
i subscribe to a moral relativist viewpoint myself, i don't really care how or why other cultures establish their own moral code, nor do i feel that the entire world should subscribe to a universal set of ethics. by that same token, i do feel many cultures and sets of ethics are inherently incompatible with one another, and i feel certain cultures are particularly adept at maintaining their own distinct set of morals, even when immigrating to a country that has a moral code alien to their own. i don't care what they do on their own, i just don't care for them bringing it to my backyard so to speak.


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Both should be allowed to exercise their rights to the full extent of the law, but placing hatred and xenophobic scare tactics on equal footing as legal construction is, quite frankly, ethically and pragmatically absurd.
i certainly agree both sides are well within their constitutional rights, and i support both from a legal perspective. i just feel the construction of the mosque is lacking in tact, even a person with a deep autism would realize that attempting to construct so close to what many americans still consider an open wound was bound to rustle a few a jimmies, so to a certain extent i feel both actions are equally, for the lack of a better word, trolltastic.

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And, as I said, nobody has actually come close to infringing on the rights of these xenophobes, so there isn't any double standard.
there certainly is a double standard, in the way in which questioning one automatically brings in accusations of bigotry, while questioning the other brings praise and pats on the back. furthermore, one group was called to back down by several government officials, while even suggesting that the other should reconsider the tastefulness of their actions generates a massive shitstorm of leftist butthurt.


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But since my worldview is of such concern to you, I'm actually an atheist. One less religious institution would be a good thing in my view. But I'd much prefer a whole lot less angry bigots.
not that it's really relevant either, but i am an atheist myself.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:38 PM Redrum is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ephekt View Post
It's not exactly rocket science why those with vested interest in the success of our military/lives of our soldiers would speak up regarding issues that affect those interests. But as I said, neither have made - cannot make - official statements in support of the ban, so it's pretty clear why they'd focus on the legal issue and troop safety.

the developers of the mosque should have a vested interest of what the sentiment of the public at large as well, if only to prevent the inevitable vandalization and fire bombings that are sure to come when the place is finally constructed. insurgents shooting at american soldiers will continue to shoot at them no matter what, even if kabul was carpet bombed with billions of dollars of one hundred dollar bills tomorrow. no matter what happens the taliban and various other islamic fundamentalist groups will always find a way to make propaganda out of this to benefit them directly.

but then again it's good to know that i should remember to refrain from certain ways of expressing myself in fear of pissing off a group of desert religion cultists. i only wish muslims would return me that favor and refrain from exercising their constitutional rights in fear of pissing off a few backwater hicks with not much to lose...
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:41 PM Redrum is offline  
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:28 PM cokezeroholic is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ephekt View Post
It's not exactly rocket science why those with vested interest in the success of our military/lives of our soldiers would speak up regarding issues that affect those interests. But as I said, neither have made - cannot make - official statements in support of the ban, so it's pretty clear why they'd focus on the legal issue and troop safety.
You still don't get it do you..wow. We're talking about burning some paper with words in ink on the pages..and possibly a leather binding. Even if it weren't being carried out by a previously obscure preacher man in Florida...why is this such a dangerous thing that people at the highest levels of the U.S. government feel compelled to not only acknowledge it, but to actively ask him not to do it?

You're either truly dense, or would rather dance around the real issue here..
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Old 09-11-2010, 12:27 AM joemama is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
why is this such a dangerous thing that people at the highest levels of the U.S. government feel compelled to not only acknowledge it, but to actively ask him not to do it?
because our religious whackjobs burn books and theirs fly planes into buildings, plant IEDs for our soldiers and suicide bomb public places.

all this is serving to do is further inflame the radicals and help them recruit more radicals.

and now there's like a dozen copy cat morons all across the country who want to get their moment in the sun too by threatening to burn more korans. gee, thanks crazy ass right wingers for drumming up all this anti-islamic rhetoric for the election season this year.

See, this is how it works:

9/11 = islam
islam = obama
obama = democrats

so you better vote republican or else democrats will have muslims 9/11ing all over the place.
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Old 09-11-2010, 04:21 AM pyramid is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
i like how you also keep on throwing around the word xenophobia, elements of xenophobia work swimmingly for countries like switzerland and japan, and i'd much prefer full blown xenophobia to today's atmosphere of complete cultural/moral relativism and having to constantly apologize for being a westerner/american...

dude, you are against building a mosque in the name of peace, for burning holy books for no good reason, and now you are exalting the benefits of xenophobia and homogenized societies? maybe you shouldn't talk about moral relativism.

and when the fuck have you ever apologized for anything?
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Old 09-11-2010, 04:25 AM pyramid is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
because our religious whackjobs burn books and theirs fly planes into buildings, plant IEDs for our soldiers and suicide bomb public places.

all this is serving to do is further inflame the radicals and help them recruit more radicals.

and now there's like a dozen copy cat morons all across the country who want to get their moment in the sun too by threatening to burn more korans. gee, thanks crazy ass right wingers for drumming up all this anti-islamic rhetoric for the election season this year.

See, this is how it works:

9/11 = islam
islam = obama
obama = democrats

so you better vote republican or else democrats will have muslims 9/11ing all over the place.


So what you are saying is we should change how we do things to satisfy the whackjobs who fly planes into buildings. And of course they never did any of this before anyone threatened to burn and korans.(ZOMG I spelled it with a k and didn't even capitalize it Better put more scanners at the airports there is going to be HELL to PAY)

Hey I have an idea. Lets stop abortions because the anti abortion crazies like to shoot doctors.

Lets stop taxation because the anti tax crazies like to blow up federal buildings

etc etc etc.
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Old 09-11-2010, 06:13 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
lol. this is all very telling.

a hick pastor and his inbred congregation excercise their first amendment rights doing something insensitive and antagonistic and a shit storm ensues, with everyone including top government officials publically telling them to stop, and they ultimately back off.

muslims excercise their first amendment rights by planning to build a mosque very close to gorund zero, something seen just as antagonistic and insensitive by many people, and the moment a dialouge about it arises accusations of bigotry are thrown around, all the while the people trying to build it refuse to back down or comprosmise at all, or even acknowledge that building so closely was probably not the best way to "promote interfaith understanding"...

cultural suicide ftw. remember, you have be sensitive to the sensibilities of others when you excercise your freedoms...as long the people you may end up insulting are not white, that is...
Your obvious racism is showing when you make poor analogies that don't even make sense. But of course, building mosques and/or centers where you practise religion is exactly equal to you know ...burning books for the sole purpose of pissing people off?

Back to stormfront for you, .
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:46 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
I think his point was that you don't seem concerned by millions of angry bigots on the other side. Sure the Quaran burning thing is silly...but nobody seems to want to address exactly why a General and the U.S. president felt compelled to weigh in on the issue...or even why this is much bigger deal than it should be.

Really? What the fuck is wrong with you?


Gee, I really do wonder why a fucking general in the middle of two wars with batshit raving loonie extremist muslims doesn't like the idea some redneck shitfuck troll bigot from the US doesn't launch a worldwide campaign designed to further piss off these bigots for no other reason than someone wanting to troll in real life.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:48 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
So what you are saying is we should change how we do things to satisfy the whackjobs who fly planes into buildings. And of course they never did any of this before anyone threatened to burn and korans.(ZOMG I spelled it with a k and didn't even capitalize it Better put more scanners at the airports there is going to be HELL to PAY)

Hey I have an idea. Lets stop abortions because the anti abortion crazies like to shoot doctors.

Lets stop taxation because the anti tax crazies like to blow up federal buildings

etc etc etc.

I guess on a similar example, you could stop posting because it's an insult to intelligence worldwide regardless of culture.

Then again, not that you're going to get that considering you're actually comparing some fucking troll burning books and his right to do that, to collecting taxes and having abortions.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:54 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Oh and I'm not in favor of telling the guy what he should do. Infact, he should burn as many qurans as he gets his hands on. The idea of burning embassies, dead americans and the unlikely (but delicious) idea of some lunatic offing this stupid fucking shitstain sounds like a win-win to me.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:55 AM Straw Man is offline  
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ephekt
 
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you'd be wrong here. the building in question was the burlington coat factory prior to the 9/11 attacks, and was purchased relatively recently by the developers.
Perhaps you are correct. I don't remember exactly but a friend from NYC was saying the mosque was either there or in another location nearby for a long time, possibly prior to 9/11.

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there certainly is a double standard, in the way in which questioning one automatically brings in accusations of bigotry, while questioning the other brings praise and pats on the back.
You are presupposing that the muslim group is trolling or has some other motive beyond creating a mosque/culture center, which leas to the fallacious assumption that both arguments are of equal merit. An appeal to emotion (fallacy) and a rightful act are simply not equal, no matter how badly some may want them to be. Emotion is something to be considered, but to base an argument entirely on it is literally unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
You still don't get it do you..wow. We're talking about burning some paper with words in ink on the pages..and possibly a leather binding. Even if it weren't being carried out by a previously obscure preacher man in Florida...why is this such a dangerous thing that people at the highest levels of the U.S. government feel compelled to not only acknowledge it, but to actively ask him not to do it?

You're either truly dense, or would rather dance around the real issue here..
I already explained that. If you cant accept that it's not my problem. For what it's worth, I don't necessarily agree with Obama etc's reaction. I was just offering the reasoning behind it. Oh, and in case you got confused in the short time between posts, the "real issue" here was whether there was a double standard or not - which I have addressed several times.

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the developers of the mosque should have a vested interest of what the sentiment of the public at large as well, if only to prevent the inevitable vandalization and fire bombings that are sure to come when the place is finally constructed.
The developer's interests, and the interests of their future patrons, are all that really matters. Consider the atheist organization buildings that were recently in he news in the South - iirc one was right across the street from a church. I don't remember the exact locations, but the local Christian groups were furious and protested for weeks. Should the atheists have avoided building simply because the public was outraged? Of course not. Sensitivities should be considered in these situations, but public opinion should not be allowed to shape your goals, especially if said opinion is irrational and hateful.

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but then again it's good to know that i should remember to refrain from certain ways of expressing myself in fear of pissing off a group of desert religion cultists.
Expecting reason from religion is rather absurd. No offense... just saying.

Last edited by ephekt; 09-11-2010 at 12:06 PM..
Old 09-11-2010, 11:49 AM ephekt is offline  
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Quote:
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Perhaps you are correct. I don't remember exactly but a friend from NYC was saying the mosque was either there or in another location nearby for a long time, possibly prior to 9/11.

You are presupposing that the muslim group is trolling or has some other motive beyond creating a mosque/culture center, which leas to the fallacious assumption that both arguments are of equal merit.


.


Um no, preponderance of the evidence indicates it is a deliberate troll when taken with his rhetoric for the last five? years.

nice otherwise.
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Old 09-11-2010, 12:07 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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