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Frock
 
A new way to run a free government

Our political philosophy in the world has had a difficult time dealing with bureaucracy, markets, education, health, ect. for a long time, and the main problem seems to have been balance in quick action and capacity for change combined with stability and concrete progress over time. I think I thought of a decent solution this morning.

1. Replace government-run and subsidized private companies in the fields of health, education, and utilities with small, non-profit organizations.

Benefits: By keeping these organizations on a local level, money won't be wasted in "corportate style" bureaucracy, and by making them independent, the problems of government stagnation would not exist. Further, since they will be non profit, people still get paid to work, and all money which is left over as profit would be reinvested back into making the place better.

How would the money run?

Government would pay people on the individual level who needed subsidy to pay for education, health, or utilities. Those who did not need subsidy would pay themselves. However, no money "goes to the pigs" because all money at the end of the day gets reinvested back into the systems for ALL people who use them. So, at the end of the day, you'd have a system which would be ONLY in the interest of making itself better.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:23 AM Frock is offline  
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JCviggen
 
How would one prevent them from spending the money on crack though?

And the scale of the problem doesn't suit "small" non-profit organisations. Unless you want a thousand small ones and somehow coordinate...

I don't think any of it is realistic.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:57 AM JCviggen is offline  
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Gibonius
 
To be clear here, you're only proposing this for health, energy, and education, yes?


Turning health care into a non-profit but privately run system is not a bad idea, we're talked about it before. You still encourage innovation, but the system can accommodate unprofitable customers like those with pre-existing conditions. This is somewhat feasible, although I don't see it happening in our lifetimes. I think the US is the only developed country with a for-profit health care system.

Education, I don't know. Students are mandated to attend school, and unless you have a high population density, most students are going to end up stuck with the closest school. Competition is hard to foster in this environment.

Many energy companies are already non-profit (co-ops) and I think it works pretty well. You'd have a hard time taking over the natural resource energy companies, oil and gas, etc, simply because there's so much money involved and they really need to be huge given the scale of their operations.

I take it instead of people just paying taxes for schools, they'd have to pay for them, but would get subsidized? Tax credits like that (instead of just a free service) tend to lead to waste.

A tax credit for health care wouldn't be a bad idea.
Old 03-16-2010, 11:12 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Frock
 
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Originally Posted by JCviggen View Post
How would one prevent them from spending the money on crack though?

And the scale of the problem doesn't suit "small" non-profit organisations. Unless you want a thousand small ones and somehow coordinate...

I don't think any of it is realistic.

Make it a check only payable to the place where they are supposed to be paying to use it. Also, the non-profits wouldn't collaborate other than in idea exchange, government regulation would tie them together the same way it does for its own now, but with less expense. I don't think that this idea is any less "realistic" than out current system, can you elaborate?
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Last edited by Frock; 03-16-2010 at 08:33 PM..
Old 03-16-2010, 08:20 PM Frock is offline  
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Frock
 
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To be clear here, you're only proposing this for health, energy, and education, yes?

Could be for utilities too, (electricity, sewage, water, etc)

Quote:
Education, I don't know. Students are mandated to attend school, and unless you have a high population density, most students are going to end up stuck with the closest school. Competition is hard to foster in this environment.
I see this as a problem for the current system, but not the non-profit one. A non-profit system could utilize vouchers with none of the drawbacks we normally associate with using vouchers for private organizations. Overall standards could be achieved the same way as they are now, with laws and standardized tests. What would change for the better would be the general attitude of education in general. Now we see education "pushing people through" so to speak, but with the non-profit design the individual schools would have the goal of providing a good education, while now it seems like schools have the goal of doing what it has to in order to meet government regulations. Although they would be regulated, they would have more flexibility on an individual level because only the "output" would be regulated, while the schools themselves could develop independent solutions to meet our needs. Much more "free market" in the sense that innovation would be fostered (non-profits want to do things cheaply because they need to look out for such things in a way government organizations do not) but also more stable.

To use an analogy, government schools are like a kid who knows their parents will always provide for them. While non-profits will never have that security blanket, and so will be like a kid who has nice parents but knows they won't pay for everything.

Quote:
Many energy companies are already non-profit (co-ops) and I think it works pretty well. You'd have a hard time taking over the natural resource energy companies, oil and gas, etc, simply because there's so much money involved and they really need to be huge given the scale of their operations.
Perhaps, but making them huge non-profits would be much more efficient (cheap) because profits would be reinvesting, rather than "going to the pigs."

Quote:
I take it instead of people just paying taxes for schools, they'd have to pay for them, but would get subsidized? Tax credits like that (instead of just a free service) tend to lead to waste.
Subsidy would only occur on the individual level. People could shop around, making the non-profits competitive.

As far as tax credits go, I see the problem of crack money arising. With vouchers, the money could only go to what it was given for.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:32 PM Frock is offline  
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limzim2010
 
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Could be for utilities too, (electricity, sewage, water, etc)



I see this as a problem for the current system, but not the non-profit one. A non-profit system could utilize vouchers with none of the drawbacks we normally associate with using vouchers for private organizations. Overall standards could be achieved the same way as they are now, with laws and standardized tests. What would change for the better would be the general attitude of education in general. Now we see education "pushing people through" so to speak, but with the non-profit design the individual schools would have the goal of providing a good education, while now it seems like schools have the goal of doing what it has to in order to meet government regulations. Although they would be regulated, they would have more flexibility on an individual level because only the "output" would be regulated, while the schools themselves could develop independent solutions to meet our needs. Much more "free market" in the sense that innovation would be fostered (non-profits want to do things cheaply because they need to look out for such things in a way government organizations do not) but also more stable.

To use an analogy, government schools are like a kid who knows their parents will always provide for them. While non-profits will never have that security blanket, and so will be like a kid who has nice parents but knows they won't pay for everything.



Perhaps, but making them huge non-profits would be much more efficient (cheap) because profits would be reinvesting, rather than "going to the pigs."



Subsidy would only occur on the individual level. People could shop around, making the non-profits competitive.

As far as tax credits go, I see the problem of crack money arising. With vouchers, the money could only go to what it was given for.

I definitely plan to get out there and do some maintainence sometime soon- need to make sure some of the new features are still safe...
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:07 AM limzim2010 is offline  
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And how would you handle deficits in those organizations (mainly healthcare and education, though also electricity etc)?
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:14 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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And how would you handle deficits in those organizations (mainly healthcare and education, though also electricity etc)?

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Old 03-17-2010, 01:30 AM SemperFly is offline  
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Straw Man
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This thread is a good example why 99,99% of americans who say "small gubmint" are white middle class fucking retards that are very oblivious on how everything works. Have fun keeping tabs on 300 million people through "small nonprofit organizations" that are entirely uncoordinated and unorganized you stupid fucking shitstain
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:19 AM Straw Man is offline  
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TheMorlock
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now thats some prime irony right there.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:14 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Straw Man
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oh look it's the alcoholic that likes following me around. someone shower him with a double amount of attention so he feels worthwhile
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:31 PM Straw Man is offline  
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möbiustrip
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruho
Have fun keeping tabs on 300 million people through "small nonprofit organizations" that are entirely uncoordinated and unorganized
Clearly an inferior approach to the uncoordinated and disorganized behemoth meta-bureaucracy we currently enjoy.

Every year they have to peel offices off these fuckers and spin them into a new organization, because (get this) the original two departments don't have the resources to communicate efficiently.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:47 PM möbiustrip is offline  
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Frock
 
Quote:
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This thread is a good example why 99,99% of americans who say "small gubmint" are white middle class fucking retards that are very oblivious on how everything works. Have fun keeping tabs on 300 million people through "small nonprofit organizations" that are entirely uncoordinated and unorganized you stupid fucking shitstain

Have fun keeping tabs in people in general. I'm not too interested in that myself. You apparently have no confidence in humanity. Funny thing is, I don't either, but your argument has given me no reason to think that this idea is less feasable than what we have now. Why? Because your argument was nothing more than an ad hominem attack.

If you make everything idiot-proof, nature will give you a better idiot.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:46 PM Frock is offline  
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Vote McCain!
Retardism
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
This thread is a good example why 99,99% of americans who say "small gubmint" are white middle class fucking retards that are very oblivious on how everything works. Have fun keeping tabs on 300 million people through "small nonprofit organizations" that are entirely uncoordinated and unorganized you stupid fucking shitstain

one of the few things you've said i agree with, good sir
Old 03-17-2010, 04:04 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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That's sounds like a good way to further entrench us in regional economic feudalism. No thanks.
Old 03-17-2010, 04:33 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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