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undertakr
 
i've seen some pretty sad anti-marijuana posts here
i'd add to the pro-weed argument but pyramid has destroyed everyone in the opposition.
if you take the time to read his posts, that is.

notes:
remember, this is WEED we are talking about, not PCP, not crystal meth.

Fucking Weed. Alot of the arguments against seem to forget that...

If it's weed you're talking about, there's no good argument for illegalization. Our current society pokes any possible argument to pieces with hypocricies.
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Old 07-27-2005, 10:56 PM undertakr is offline  
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gg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keer sucking gewk
kids can... thats a fact... no way i want my kid to get high and then get addicted
Highly improbable, especially in an outdoor setting.

http://my.marijuana.com/1b.php3
Quote:
1.3.1 Passive smoke and positives:
"Second hand marijuana smoke in a car can cause you to fail the next day" (Nightbyrd). It is possible that second hand [marijuana] smoke will raise someone to the 50 ng/mL level; however, *extreme* exposure is required. For instance, a closed car full of pot smokers and a non-smoker may render the non-smoker positive for both urinalysis and the hair test, provided that they are sealed in the car for a while. The Army did a case study where volunteers were put in a room pumped full of smoke for an hour, five time daily. Subjects started testing positive after the second day. The non-smoker would have to take in virtually as much second hand smoke as a smoker. Non-smokers are safe in a ventilated area, as long as they don't get a hair test. According to Clinton, simply blowing crack smoke on ones hair may cause a positive hair test. Second hand pot smoke doesn't affect the hair test results as much as crack smoke does mainly because exhaled smoke contains no THC. The only pot smoke that contains THC is the smoke that hasn't entered the lungs.
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/...ng_faq.shtml#1
Quote:
By the way, in order for you to test positive for THC, the marijuana smoke would have to be so thick that it would irritate the eyes of smokers and passive smoke breathers alike. Avoiding smoke-filled cars, unventilated rooms, and other enclosed smoky spaces can help ensure that you can hang out while your friends toke and still be clean for bugle call in the morning.
The threshold for a positive test for marijuana use (THC metabolites @ 50ng/mL) is far lower than that needed to produce a high in someone exposed to marijuana smoke.

But even then, is your fear of THC, the main active compound in marijuana smoke justified? It shouldn't be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahy...binol#Toxicity
Quote:
Toxicity

THC has a LD50 value of 1270 mg/kg (male rats), 730 mg/kg (female rats) orally (administered dissolved in sesame oil). Studies of the distribution of the receptors in the brain explain why toxicity of THC is so low (i.e., the LD50 of the compound is so large): parts of the brain that control vital functions such as respiration do not have many receptors, so are relatively unaffected even by doses larger than could ever be ingested under any normal conditions.
But even then, it is still secondhand smoke. The question is, though, is it really dangerous?

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi..._health2.shtml
Quote:
The fact is, although insoluble tars are a contributing factor to the lung cancer danger present in today's cigarettes, the real danger is radioactivity. According to U.S. Surgeon General C. Everette Koop (on national television, 1990) radioactivity, not tar, accounts for at least 90% of all smoking related lung cancer.

Tobacco crops grown in the United States are fertilized by law with phosphates rich in radium 226. In addition, many soils have a natural radium 226 content. Radium 226 breaks down into two long lived 'daughter' elements -- lead 210 and polonium 210. These radioactive particles become airborne, and attach themselves to the fine hairs on tobacco leaves.
This radioactivity is not present in marijuana smoke, since marijuana is not grown in the same manner as is tobacco.

Please also consider that:
Quote:
1) Most marijuana smokers smoke the bud, not the leaf, of
the plant. The bud contains only 33% as much tar as tobacco.

2) Marijuana smokers do not smoke anywhere near as much as
tobacco smokers, due to the psychoactive effects of cannabis.

3) Not one case of lung cancer has ever been successfully
linked to marijuana use.

4) Cannabis, unlike tobacco, does not cause any narrowing of
the small air passageways in the lungs.


In fact, marijuana has been shown to be an expectorant and actually dilates the air channels it comes in contact with. This is why many asthma sufferers look to marijuana to provide relief. Doctors have postulated that marijuana may, in this respect, be more effective than all of the prescription drugs on the market.

Studies even show that due to marijuana's ability to clear the lungs of smog, pollutants, and cigarette smoke, it may actually reduce your risk of emphysema, bronchitis, and lung cancer. Smokers of cannabis have been shown to outlive non-smokers in some areas by up to two years. Medium to heavy tobacco smokers will live seven to ten years longer if they also smoke marijuana.


Cannabis is also radically different from tobacco in that it does not contain nicotine and is not addictive. The psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, THC, has been accused of causing brain and genetic damage, but these studies have all been disproven. In fact, the DEA's own Administrative Law Judge Francis Young has declared that "marijuana in its natural form is far safer than many foods we commonly consume."

If you are concerned about secondhand marijuana smoke, then to preserve proportionality, you should be deathly afraid of secondhand tobacco smoke. Since tobacco is legal to purchase and use outdoors, why are you calling for a ban on marijuana on the logic of preventing harm from secondhand marijuana smoke? If anything, it should be legal to smoke marijuana in public, and not tobacco, if the decision is to be based on harm.

There has been no link established between secondhand marijuana smoke and harm, so paranoia over the matter is completely unfounded.
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:19 PM gg is offline  
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Morris
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*snip*

I call on that person, I believe they were just being sarcastic.
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:49 PM Morris is offline  
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gg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris
I call on that person, I believe they were just being sarcastic.
You never know.....in 5th grade DARE, the officer taught us to avoid parties, since marijuana smoke in the air would make someone a marijuana addict themself.
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Old 07-28-2005, 12:01 AM gg is offline  
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#124  

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Drug prohibition isn't about drugs. Its about demographics.

Certain types of drugs become associated with certain parts of society. To attack that part of society with deniability, a government simply attacks the drug of choice in that society. The statements by Harry Anslinger are a prime example. He didn't have any problem with Cannabis itself, he just wanted an excuse to throw black people and musicians in jail. For further proof, look at the difference in the way powder and crack cocaine are treated by current laws.
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Old 07-28-2005, 04:33 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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#125  

K0ll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Charles
I have a question for pot-users out there: is it possible to use pot without getting the mind-altering effects? I mean like in small quantities.

Yes. For example, last night I was totally out of it. It was nice and relaxing. This morning, with the same weed, I only smoked a little and my thinking has become more clear. Last night I wouldnt have been able to drive, or do anything really. This morning, I could do anything.
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Old 07-28-2005, 05:31 AM K0ll is offline  
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#126  

K0ll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g
You never know.....in 5th grade DARE, the officer taught us to avoid parties, since marijuana smoke in the air would make someone a marijuana addict themself.

When I was in 7th or 8th grade we had to give a presentation about a certain substance that was assigned. I got cigaretts. In my speach I had that cigaretts are illegial to buy under the age of 18, but you can posses and smoke at any age. Teacher told me to change it to illegial unless 18
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Old 07-28-2005, 05:44 AM K0ll is offline  
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#127  

pyramid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keer sucking gewk
kids can... thats a fact... no way i want my kid to get high and then get addicted
I can understand your concern for the safety of your kids but that is pretty much impossible. Unless they are locked into a smallish closet with someone smoking large amounts of marijuana there is little chance of any secondary contact high and there is no possibility of addiction from a chance encounter with some second hand smoke. I've been plenty of places with people smoking marijuana around me and the onlytime I ever got high from being near it was when I was sitting in the back seat of my friends little VW hatchback and three other people completely "hotboxed" the car (filled the entire passenger cabin with thick smoke). But that time the smoke was so thick that just being in the car was roughly equivalent to taking a pull right out of the bong. It was so thick I had trouble breathing at all and had to get out of the car. Other than that I've been in large rooms with lots of people smoking, closed garages with a group of about twenty people smoking, concerts where the entire row in front of me seemed to be smoking, and been exposed to second hand marijuana smoke in many different ways on many occaisions but only once, under the most extreme conditions, did I ever catch a buzz from that exposure.

So, unless you are expecting some hippies to do a drive by stoning where they grab your kid and hold him in the back of a VW van blowing thick plumes of smoke in his face then it is not very likely that your kid will be exposed to that level of second hand marijuana smoke until he is a teenager and is hanging out with his friends and they decide to "hotbox" a small car or closet or something.

Also, people would not be smoking it "everywhere all day long" anymore than they do already. Marijuana may be illegal but that doesn't mean it's not ubiquitous already.
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Old 07-28-2005, 09:14 AM pyramid is offline  
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#128  

Doombabies
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I'm not sure if this has been brought up in this thread yet, but I remember hearing/reading some theories on why pot remains illegal. It was largely illegalized because it threatened the cotton and tobacco industries (which were the largest national industries at the time) because pot was a non-addictive smoking substance that was more stable and easier to grow than tobacco, and the cotton industry because hemp is easier and cheaper to manufacture than cotton, and does not require the intense and environmentally harmful chemical bleaching processes (same with paper).

Now that we know the effects of the chemical bleaching processes necessary in cotton and tree-pulp paper on the environment, would it not be an environmentally sound argument to legalize the growth of marijuana for (at least, it's a start) hemp purposes?
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Last edited by Doombabies; 07-28-2005 at 09:49 AM..
Old 07-28-2005, 09:45 AM Doombabies is offline  
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#129  

DigitalChaos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid
I can understand your concern for the safety of your kids but that is pretty much impossible. Unless they are locked into a smallish closet with someone smoking large amounts of marijuana there is little chance of any secondary contact high and there is no possibility of addiction from a chance encounter with some second hand smoke. I've been plenty of places with people smoking marijuana around me and the onlytime I ever got high from being near it was when I was sitting in the back seat of my friends little VW hatchback and three other people completely "hotboxed" the car (filled the entire passenger cabin with thick smoke). But that time the smoke was so thick that just being in the car was roughly equivalent to taking a pull right out of the bong. It was so thick I had trouble breathing at all and had to get out of the car. Other than that I've been in large rooms with lots of people smoking, closed garages with a group of about twenty people smoking, concerts where the entire row in front of me seemed to be smoking, and been exposed to second hand marijuana smoke in many different ways on many occaisions but only once, under the most extreme conditions, did I ever catch a buzz from that exposure.

So, unless you are expecting some hippies to do a drive by stoning where they grab your kid and hold him in the back of a VW van blowing thick plumes of smoke in his face then it is not very likely that your kid will be exposed to that level of second hand marijuana smoke until he is a teenager and is hanging out with his friends and they decide to "hotbox" a small car or closet or something.

Also, people would not be smoking it "everywhere all day long" anymore than they do already. Marijuana may be illegal but that doesn't mean it's not ubiquitous already.



QFT
and marijuana is not addictive, tobacco IS ADDICTIVE. how many people get addicted to tobacco via second hand smoke? why is this not a worry for the person you quoted...

edit: nm you totally coverd that a few posts up

Last edited by Laqueefa; 07-28-2005 at 09:56 AM..
Old 07-28-2005, 09:52 AM DigitalChaos is offline  
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#130  

Barney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keer sucking gewk
kids can... thats a fact... no way i want my kid to get high and then get addicted

if youre worried about your kid getting addicted to things, never give him soda, video games, let him watch tv, eat candy, play sports, read books, etc. all of those are pleasurable in the way that you want to do them...and if you dont do things you get BORED. thats as much addiction as he would face.
Old 07-28-2005, 09:55 AM Barney is offline  
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Barney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
QFT
and marijuana is not addictive, tobacco IS ADDICTIVE. how many people get addicted to tobacco via second hand smoke? why is this not a worry for the person you quoted...

IIRC you cant get addicted to even cigarettes anyway from second hand, since theres almost no nicotine
Old 07-28-2005, 09:56 AM Barney is offline  
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010100111001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keer sucking gewk
kids can... thats a fact... no way i want my kid to get high and then get addicted

see, its parents like you that are holding back progress in this nation (drugwise); ignorant of the facts. by the time your kid could be subjected to stuff like pot, he should have a pretty good idea on whether or not he wants to get into that stuff. though of course with the kind of parenting you probably gave him, he'll probably be pretty immature. but keeping marijuana illegal is definately not going to keep the drug away from your kid. if it was legalized now there would be an increase of use, but it would go back to normal in a short amount of time.

please, next time you try and make a statement about something, read up on the facts first. and by facts i dont mean conservative propaganda . like it or not, most responsible drug users know a lot more about substance abuse in general than the average middle-aged parent.
Old 07-28-2005, 11:46 AM 010100111001 is offline  
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#133  

DigitalChaos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney
IIRC you cant get addicted to even cigarettes anyway from second hand, since theres almost no nicotine
even though i HATE tobacco, second hand smoke is complete buullllshit. there is not a study that shows it to even be harmful (in the sense that anyone has show any signs that would indicate a health issue)
Old 07-28-2005, 12:49 PM DigitalChaos is offline  
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#134  

gg
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A 2004 DEA study determined that teenage kids have easier access to marijuana than they do alcohol....the point of the study was to make us fear marijuana, because its supposedly on every streetcorner....isn't this proof that prohibition is inferior to legal, yet regulated, distribution?

Liquor stores don't sell alcohol to minors to reap massive black market profits......marijuana dealers do, because of the lack of legal supply, and the resulting astronomical prices.
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Old 07-30-2005, 03:40 AM gg is offline  
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