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View Poll Results: Choose all that apply
Honda/Acura 23 30.26%
Toyota/Lexus 17 22.37%
Mazda 12 15.79%
Nissan/Infinity 9 11.84%
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury 21 27.63%
Chevy/GM/Caddy 13 17.11%
Subaru 3 3.95%
Volvo 4 5.26%
BMW 16 21.05%
MINI 3 3.95%
Mercedes 2 2.63%
Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth 10 13.16%
Saab 0 0%
Audi 6 7.89%
VW 8 10.53%
Jaguar 0 0%
Lotus 0 0%
Kia 0 0%
Hyundai 1 1.32%
SMART 0 0%
Suzuki 2 2.63%
Yamaha 3 3.95%
Aprilia 1 1.32%
Ducati 0 0%
Harley Davidson 1 1.32%
Buel 0 0%
Husqavarna 0 0%
Kawasaki 5 6.58%
Other car 5 6.58%
Other bike 0 0%
No motor vehicle 0 0%
No license 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Tex Arcana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
That C4 article was awesome


I forgot what time they managed to get out of it. All in all it was a POS automatic with a crossfire motor so no real loss there. If they started with an MT6 LT4 that shit would be all sorts of vicious But then it would be a shame to tear into....

Oh, they got some SERIOUS hate mail and death threats over using that buckboard POS.

They proved a great deal, tho: there's a limit to which you can remove weight and gain anything. Past the point of basic weight savings (when they started removing major body parts iirc), the handling actually gets worse, and the times start falling on a track (straight-line stuff didn't count here) because the spring/shock combos got totally wrong for the weight of the car.

I just scanned an article in... Import Tuner mag?? where they did an interview with the driving force behind the GEEETEEEAAARRRGH... and he had some interesting thoughts indeed, including (as a reply to "why dat shit so heavy?") the thought that there is such a thing as a "too-light" car; he stated that, if one looks at F1 and other racing series, they use downforce to replace weight to improve traction/handling, and that a heavier car can handle better than a similar lighter car. Kinda the whole "road-holding weight" thing come around again...
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:36 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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grjr
 
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3 hondas
2 toyotas
1 nissan
1 chrysler
1 pontiac
1 kawasaki

only 1 of those is mine

edit: I personally had 4 hondas at one time, got rid of 3
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:49 PM grjr is offline  
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Quote:
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Oh, they got some SERIOUS hate mail and death threats over using that buckboard POS.

They proved a great deal, tho: there's a limit to which you can remove weight and gain anything. Past the point of basic weight savings (when they started removing major body parts iirc), the handling actually gets worse, and the times start falling on a track (straight-line stuff didn't count here) because the spring/shock combos got totally wrong for the weight of the car.

I just scanned an article in... Import Tuner mag?? where they did an interview with the driving force behind the GEEETEEEAAARRRGH... and he had some interesting thoughts indeed, including (as a reply to "why dat shit so heavy?") the thought that there is such a thing as a "too-light" car; he stated that, if one looks at F1 and other racing series, they use downforce to replace weight to improve traction/handling, and that a heavier car can handle better than a similar lighter car. Kinda the whole "road-holding weight" thing come around again...

The downforce comes in at very high speeds. If you have ever driven a miata that's proof to me there is no such thing as "too light" - they feel amazing all the way through to 120mph, which is as fast as you really ever want to go... unless you're completely nuts and want your shit revoked for a decade and/or a mangled death when some Plymouth merges into your lane at 55mph.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:35 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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The downforce comes in at very high speeds. If you have ever driven a miata that's proof to me there is no such thing as "too light" - they feel amazing all the way through to 120mph, which is as fast as you really ever want to go... unless you're completely nuts and want your shit revoked for a decade and/or a mangled death when some Plymouth merges into your lane at 55mph.

I have driven them, and they are amazing; OTOH, when everything is working correctly (read: "no broken shocks"), my lead sled feels solid, planted, and just grips like it's developing 4600lbs of downforce... Oh, snap!

Edit: f1 cars are developing major downforce at highway speeds... Then again, just going off-throttle develops 1.2Gs of deceleration force, more than a 'vette at max braking.
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Last edited by Tex Arcana; 02-07-2012 at 07:06 PM..
Old 02-07-2012, 06:48 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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Quote:
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I have driven them, and they are amazing; OTOH, when everything is working correctly (read: "no broken shocks"), my lead sled feels solid, planted, and just grips like it's developing 4600lbs of downforce... Oh, snap!

Edit: f1 cars are developing major downforce at highway speeds... Then again, just going off-throttle develops 1.2Gs of deceleration force, more than a 'vette at max braking.

There is no way a vette can't beat 1.2 Gs worth of braking It can almost do that turning... My M makes me throw up a litle if i stomp it solid; I assume a new zr1 has bigger brakes than that by a factor of like three
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:01 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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There is no way a vette can't beat 1.2 Gs worth of braking It can almost do that turning... My M makes me throw up a litle if i stomp it solid; I assume a new zr1 has bigger brakes than that by a factor of like three

That stat comes from about 2004, when the aero packages were really generating some serious drag. I still doubt even a zr1 can generate that much braking, and it barely cracks 1g in the skidpad.

And on your brakes being decent; you're just a wimp that hurls when you think seriously about riding a roller-coaster.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:13 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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you jelly? yea you jelly...

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:48 AM grjr is offline  
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Quote:
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That stat comes from about 2004, when the aero packages were really generating some serious drag. I still doubt even a zr1 can generate that much braking, and it barely cracks 1g in the skidpad.

WAT?

BORKED
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:57 AM pyramid is offline  
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+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


why? because fuck you! that's why.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:09 AM grjr is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex Arcana View Post
I just scanned an article in... Import Tuner mag?? where they did an interview with the driving force behind the GEEETEEEAAARRRGH... and he had some interesting thoughts indeed, including (as a reply to "why dat shit so heavy?") the thought that there is such a thing as a "too-light" car; he stated that, if one looks at F1 and other racing series, they use downforce to replace weight to improve traction/handling, and that a heavier car can handle better than a similar lighter car. Kinda the whole "road-holding weight" thing come around again...

They don't turn road cars into race cars by throwing lead weights in them. Race cars use aerodynamic downforce to generate grip instead of weight because weight carries the penalty of inertia.

If you have two equal cars, both set up correctly, the lighter one will win pretty much every test you can throw at it. Acceleration, braking, cornering... because it has less inertia to overcome to change its velocity or heading.

A weakened, cut apart C4 vette with a stock suspension far out of adjustment is not a good example of a light car that is set up properly.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:20 AM pyramid is offline  
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They don't turn road cars into race cars by throwing lead weights in them. Race cars use aerodynamic downforce to generate grip instead of weight because weight carries the penalty of inertia.

If you have two equal cars, both set up correctly, the lighter one will win pretty much every test you can throw at it. Acceleration, braking, cornering... because it has less inertia to overcome to change its velocity or heading.

A weakened, cut apart C4 vette with a stock suspension far out of adjustment is not a good example of a light car that is set up properly.

True; but given vehicles with equal power-to-weight ratios, tires, and zero aero assistance, the heavier car CAN outperform the lighter one, since maximum grip is ONLY dependent on the coefficient of friction and the normal force on the contact patch. This also assumes the suspensions are set up ideally for each car.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:38 AM Tex Arcana is offline  
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Tex, that would be dependent on the track. On an oval, yes, a huge yes. Autocross? Go fuck yourself, you're dead wrong. The heavier car with the same power-weight would have the biggest advantage at speed, since aerodynamics play more of a factor at high speed than weight, so the car with more power will win.
Old 02-08-2012, 12:46 PM gribly is offline  
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WAT?

BORKED

There you go that's more like it.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:53 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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Tex, that would be dependent on the track. On an oval, yes, a huge yes. Autocross? Go fuck yourself, you're dead wrong. The heavier car with the same power-weight would have the biggest advantage at speed, since aerodynamics play more of a factor at high speed than weight, so the car with more power will win.

Then explain to me how it's possible I was faster on the autocross than the RX8 Turbo that was lighter, better-balanced, and had a higher power-to-weight ratio (but not by much)?

Do the math: force of friction = coefficient of friction X normal force. Contact area is irrelevant; so, given tires of the exact same compounds and size (since we all know actual contact area is highly variable due to surface imperfections), and suspensions optimized for the weight of the car in question; it follows that the car with the higher normal force (weight) will corner faster than the one that doesn't.

Yes, it's counter-intuitive; but to a point can be very correct. Your beloved GT-R helps prove that point, as stated by its creator.

Think anaclastic bending: the effect is HUGELY counter-intuitive; but real nonetheless. This is true as well.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:17 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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Then explain to me how it's possible I was faster on the autocross than the RX8 Turbo that was lighter, better-balanced, and had a higher power-to-weight ratio (but not by much)?

Do the math: force of friction = coefficient of friction X normal force. Contact area is irrelevant; so, given tires of the exact same compounds and size (since we all know actual contact area is highly variable due to surface imperfections), and suspensions optimized for the weight of the car in question; it follows that the car with the higher normal force (weight) will corner faster than the one that doesn't.

Yes, it's counter-intuitive; but to a point can be very correct. Your beloved GT-R helps prove that point, as stated by its creator.

Think anaclastic bending: the effect is HUGELY counter-intuitive; but real nonetheless. This is true as well.


Speaking of GTR I just watched a standard z06 spank the shit out of it on a track ni a magazine review. Ill look for the video. But there you go, 3800lb versus 3100, the fat one lost.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:23 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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