It has begun.....1931 Ford Coupe - Build Thread

[Jehannum]

Originally Posted by J Mel

I'm going with mechanical. Honestly, outside of driving a manual, I don't know shit about how to work on them or anything. This the first time I've ever touched a clutch wirh something other than my foot to a clutch pedal. I have no idea what I'm doing and learning as I go. Parts got delivered yesterday, and have no idea what to do with them. Hopefully I'll be able to figure it out this weekend.

Cool.

The linkage kits for mechanical clutches never offer much more than 1:1 lever ratios, so you'll have a mah-velous left leg before too long.

That's why I'm looking at a hydro kit for the GTO, between the poor ergonomics of the car (no T&T column, no seat adjustment but fore and aft) and the heavy actuation of both the brakes and the clutch, I'm left wanting in the "driver satisfaction" department. It does do magnificent burnouts, though.

[J Mel]

I could probably use your help then. I still don't even know if i have everything, don't know what i'm missing, and will be relying on somebody to help me piece everything together.

What am I missing? And how do i know what to get? Off the top of my head - i have:

Fly wheel
clutch plate (10")
pressure plate
throw out bearing
Clutch Fork
clutch fork pivot
pilot bushing

I can't make it clear enough that working on this clutch and putting it together is completely foreign to me, i am literally at ground zero trying to figure it out.

What else am i missing?

[Jehannum]

Originally Posted by J Mel

I could probably use your help then. I still don't even know if i have everything, don't know what i'm missing, and will be relying on somebody to help me piece everything together.

What am I missing? And how do i know what to get? Off the top of my head - i have:

Fly wheel
clutch plate (10")
pressure plate
throw out bearing
Clutch Fork
clutch fork pivot
pilot bushing

I can't make it clear enough that working on this clutch and putting it together is completely foreign to me, i am literally at ground zero trying to figure it out.

What else am i missing?

You're pretty much complete except for however you intend to finagle the linkage and the pedal box.

Early GM cars use a half-assed pivot assembly (I think they call it the "Z bar") that links the pedal clevis to a rod that pushes on the clutch fork.



The pedal input goes into the top, the bottom of that lever connects to a rod that pushes on the clutch fork.

[J Mel]

Originally Posted by Jehannum

You're pretty much complete except for however you intend to finagle the linkage and the pedal box.

Early GM cars use a half-assed pivot assembly (I think they call it the "Z bar") that links the pedal clevis to a rod that pushes on the clutch fork.



The pedal input goes into the top, the bottom of that lever connects to a rod that pushes on the clutch fork.

I'm told that can be fabricated easy enough. Is that the only thing i need for linkage? I looked at just buying one, but they all seem to be application specific which doesn't do me any good. I hate knowing as little as i do about working and assembling clutches, but I've only owned 2 cars with a manual transmission and neither ever needed clutch work since i had them. I couldn't even really tell you how a clutch works. Think i have a basic idea, but that will likely be proved wrong when i start putting things together.

[Jehannum]

Originally Posted by J Mel

I'm told that can be fabricated easy enough. Is that the only thing i need for linkage? I looked at just buying one, but they all seem to be application specific which doesn't do me any good. I hate knowing as little as i do about working and assembling clutches, but I've only owned 2 cars with a manual transmission and neither ever needed clutch work since i had them. I couldn't even really tell you how a clutch works. Think i have a basic idea, but that will likely be proved wrong when i start putting things together.

I dunno, one application for you would be about as good as another. Probably the only difference will be the length of the Z-bar's center shaft, which you'd need to adjust anyhow. In addition to that, you'd need a linkage between the pedal and the top member of the bar, and a linkage between the clutch fork and the bottom of the bar.

It's simple as all get out.

Nose of the transmission input shaft rests inside the pilot bearing.
The flywheel is bolted to the crankshaft.
Pressure plate is bolted to the firewall (rotates with the engine)
The clutch plate sits between the pressure plate and the flywheel, however it mates to the splines on the input shaft of the transmission (so, the pressure plate sandwiches the clutch plate down on the flywheel).

Further down the input shaft, the throwout bearing rides on the clutch fork, between the input bearing and the fingers on the pressure plate.

The clutch fork sits on its pivot ball, and moves the input bearing back and forth, pushing on the fingers of the pressure plate, that lets the pressure off the clutch plate.

Et voila, when you let off the clutch, the throwout bearing moves off the fingers, and the pressure plate clamps down on the clutch plate, making your driveline one solid mass from crankshaft to tire.

Those Z bars make the clutch feel stiffer than a diamond in an ice storm, though.

[J Mel]

Originally Posted by Jehannum

It's simple as all get out.

Nose of the transmission input shaft rests inside the pilot bearing.
The flywheel is bolted to the crankshaft.
Pressure plate is bolted to the firewall (rotates with the engine)
The clutch plate sits between the pressure plate and the flywheel, however it mates to the splines on the input shaft of the transmission (so, the pressure plate sandwiches the clutch plate down on the flywheel).

Further down the input shaft, the throwout bearing rides on the clutch fork, between the input bearing and the fingers on the pressure plate.

The clutch fork moves the input bearing back and forth, pushing on the fingers of the pressure plate, that lets the pressure off the clutch plate.

Et voila, when you let off the clutch, the throwout bearing moves off the fingers, and the pressure plate clamps down on the clutch plate, making your driveline one solid mass from crankshaft to tire.

Those Z bars make the clutch feel stiffer than a diamond in an ice storm, though.

I'm assuming all the cars i've driven manual have hydraulic clutches? I don't recall any of them being particularly stiff. Guess the 97 would eventually wear me down sitting in Dallas Traffic.

81 Vette, 89 VW Fox, 97 Camaro

Did drive a '28 Model A Hotrod with a Hemi and a Muncie, but honestly don't know if it was mechanical or hydraulic clutch. I don't recall it being exceptionally difficult, but only drove it around block and only touched 3rd a couple of times.

[Jehannum]

Yeah, all of those modern cars would have hydraulic clutches.

The hydraulic clutch in my 300ZX is even vacuum assisted, lol. I tried it without for a few weeks, but the wife whined up a storm about that.

Hydraulic kits for the muncie are easy - all you have to do is mount the master cylinder (usually on the firewall next to the clutch pedal), and then run a line down to the throwout bearing/slave cylinder combo. It eliminates the existing throwout bearing, the pivot ball, the clutch fork, and the entirety of the linkage.

[J Mel]

Originally Posted by Jehannum

Yeah, all of those modern cars would have hydraulic clutches.

The hydraulic clutch in my 300ZX is even vacuum assisted, lol. I tried it without for a few weeks, but the wife whined up a storm about that.

Hydraulic kits for the muncie are easy - all you have to do is mount the master cylinder (usually on the firewall next to the clutch pedal), and then run a line down to the throwout bearing/slave cylinder combo. It eliminates the existing throwout bearing, the pivot ball, the clutch fork, and the entirety of the linkage.

I'll probably keep it mechanical at first and see how it is. If it becomes tiresome or a pain in the ass, I'll switch it over At the end of the day, the car is a toy and is for fun. Its going to be loud, obnoxious and smell. It'll squeek, rattle, and whine. There's no power brakes, no power steering.....might as well make my left leg miserable too.

[Jehannum]

Originally Posted by J Mel

I'll probably keep it mechanical at first and see how it is. If it becomes tiresome or a pain in the ass, I'll switch it over At the end of the day, the car is a toy and is for fun. Its going to be loud, obnoxious and smell. It'll squeek, rattle, and whine. There's no power brakes, no power steering.....might as well make my left leg miserable too.

Understood.

That's kinda the way I felt about the GTO initially. But then I decided I needed to keep it fun to drive.

[J Mel]

Originally Posted by Jehannum

Understood.

That's kinda the way I felt about the GTO initially. But then I decided I needed to keep it fun to drive.

Right now i'm just tired of spending money on the damned thing. LOL

I'm in over $20K at this point and not close to having a running car.

[Typhoon43]

Originally Posted by J Mel

Right now i'm just tired of spending money on the damned thing. LOL

I'm in over $20K at this point and not close to having a running car.

That's the point. It's a project, and all project vehicles are never-ending project vehicles. You just need to enjoy working on them. That's the payoff. Keep charging man!

[J Mel]

Originally Posted by Typhoon43

That's the point. It's a project, and all project vehicles are never-ending project vehicles. You just need to enjoy working on them. That's the payoff. Keep charging man!

I enjoy cruising them more than building them. This is my 3rd build, well, second and a half - i bought the '51 already running and driving, but re-did much of it. Part of me tells myself that this is my last build, that I'll just buy running hot-rods going forward, but another part of me wants to build a matching 28/29 Ford Roadster first before saying that I'm done.

[Jehannum]

Originally Posted by Typhoon43

That's the point. It's a project, and all project vehicles are never-ending project vehicles. You just need to enjoy working on them. That's the payoff. Keep charging man!

Projects are never finished, only abandoned.

[J Mel]

New Pics - because Fuck you, thats why!!!

[J Mel]

Took a bit of a break over holidays, and was too cold to work last weekend, but picked it up again this weekend. Initial intent was to try to start running fuel and brake line. But I came to the realization that not c-notching my frame for clearance for my rear axle was likely going to be a mistake. So, thats what I tackled this weekend. Got to test my fabrication, welding, and metal shaping.

For starters, I had to drop the rear end to get it out of the way. Next, I needed to shape the notch. Luckily, the boxing plates already had the shape of a notch made into them. So I made a template of the outside of the frame with cardboard and marked where the front and back of the notch need to be. Put template on the inside of the frame where the boxing plate was notched and pressed on it and pulled it out. Pressing on the cardboard against the notch in the boxing plate left a nice indention in the cardboard showing me the shape of the notch allowing to complete the template, cut it out to shape and use it to draw my line on the frame to cut out.

Plasma cutters are cool and fun and awesome.


Next, to box in the frame to make it nice and strong again...i made another template - just a rectangle and shaped it to fill the void that I cut out of the frame....traced that onto flat stock and cut it out and ended up with a flat rectangle piece of steel. Then Its a matter of shaping it to fit the curve of the notch.

At first, I put it in a slip roll but that was too perfect of a curve...That tries to make a perfect circle eventually - whereas the notch is not a perfect ccurve, but peaks and has flat points. Ended up putting it in a vice and shaping it by hand and hammer until it fit right. Little tap tap here, and a pull and push there, and back and forth a dozen times making slight adjustments and I finally got it. Naturally, there are two sides, so I had to do everything twice.





Once everything fit...it was just a matter of tacking them in, and welding it off. Then trying to reshape and clean up the welds so it looks like the frame was stamped that way.

Final result - a boxed in c-notch.



Bonus - shop selfie