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Nano
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
the rich do pay tax, a hell of a lot more than most people. they get taxed at a much higher rate even with all the loopholes they manage to take
that is contrary to what both of you just said

Please enable your sarcasmotron.

Im for a flat tax purely because its more fair, it just needs an entry limit. I suggest 25k.
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:09 PM Nano is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by ZQ View Post
the loopholes need to disappear.

Donate, or tax. they shouldn't be able to hide it.

I cant hide mine, why should they?

uh, you can hide money. the vast majority of those loopholes are available to you and me as well

I do think they need to be done away with but let's not pretend that they're getting away with murder. Even with the loopholes they still contribute more tax revenue as a percentage of their income and assets.
Old 01-18-2008, 01:10 PM SemperFly is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano View Post
Please enable your sarcasmotron.

Im for a flat tax purely because its more fair, it just needs an entry limit. I suggest 25k.

o sry

I've been arguing with brits and canadians all afternoon and suddenly every post sounds like commie rhetoric.

I wouldn't mind the entry point being there but either way federal spending would need to be severely cut. I think that need to come before lowering taxes.
Old 01-18-2008, 01:12 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
because whiny liberals demand a progressive tax so that people who are smarter, work harder and contribute more to society have to pay a greater portion of their income to support the lazy, uneducated and criminal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
......you have no right to tell anyone how much their money is worth to them

QFMFTx infinity

Last edited by topcat989; 01-18-2008 at 01:14 PM..
Old 01-18-2008, 01:12 PM topcat989 is offline  
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ZQ
 
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Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
o sry

I've been arguing with brits and canadians all afternoon and suddenly every post sounds like commie rhetoric.

I wouldn't mind the entry point being there but either way federal spending would need to be severely cut. I think that need to come before lowering taxes.



I r no commie! I just want to see taxes fixed
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:13 PM ZQ is offline  
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Nano
 
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Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
really? how the hell do you know that? the 100k earner could have a larger family, could be supporting elderly parents, could be contributing a lot more of his time and money to charity, could be sinking his personal income into investments, could be sinking that money into his own business and keeping other people employed.

you have no right to tell anyone how much their money is worth to them

Are you serious?

ok. Lets assume we have one person on 10k.

They pay 400 a month in rent ( thats pretty fucking cheap ) We have now, 4800 on rent. Add in 100 a month for a electric ( still low ), we're at 6k. Lets assume they have no car payment, gas payment, or any other bills ( ludicrous assumption ) and they spend 200 a month on food ( add another 2400 )

Thats 8400 ( which is 600 shy of their 9k after tax ) to pay for everything.

Ok, now that thats established,

Lets assume we have some mormon with 5 kids, and a decent sized house making 100k a year.

Lets say his mortage is 2k, he and his wife each have a decent car at 450 a month, they pay 300 in electricity a month, and spend 1200 a month on food. they have a 150 dollar cable bill, 100 dollar phone bill.

24000 for the house
10800 for cars per year
3600 for electric
14400 on food per year
1800 for cable
1200 for phone

Thats 55800, leaving 34,200 left to invest, and save for college.

I rest my case.

Edit:

Im not saying necessarily that the higher earners money is worth less, but the 10k earner certainly needs his 1k more than the 100k earner needs his 10k; Im still in support of the flat tax, but like i said, it needs an entry level.

For instance:

25k entry limit

If you make 30k, you pay 500 in taxes
if you make 100k you pay 7500 in taxes

same percentage, it just leaves a bit of leeway for lower income people.
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Last edited by Nano; 01-18-2008 at 01:22 PM..
Old 01-18-2008, 01:15 PM Nano is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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100 a month in electric is fucking expensive dude and you're not taking into consideration differences in cost of living

now that that's established

you forgot to include property taxes in the mortgage, another few grand. you forgot to include various forms of insurance, gas, the cost of clothing their children and a wide variety of other things.

you can't just throw out two completely random examples to prove your point. what about the guy making 12 grand but living at home, not paying any rent at all?

rest your case all you want but you still have no right to tell someone what their money is worth to them.
Old 01-18-2008, 01:21 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
because whiny liberals demand a progressive tax so that people who are smarter, work harder and contribute more to society have to pay a greater portion of their income to support the lazy, uneducated and criminal.
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:26 PM matt00926 is offline  
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#23  

ZQ
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
100 a month in electric is fucking expensive dude and you're not taking into consideration differences in cost of living

now that that's established

you forgot to include property taxes in the mortgage, another few grand. you forgot to include various forms of insurance, gas, the cost of clothing their children and a wide variety of other things.

you can't just throw out two completely random examples to prove your point. what about the guy making 12 grand but living at home, not paying any rent at all?

rest your case all you want but you still have no right to tell someone what their money is worth to them.

Dude, navy-

I live in OK, a low COLA state, my electric bill is on average ~$75, for a 1100 sq ft home. $100 is a low ball if anything.

Any decent escrow account for a mortgage will have taxes and insurance already in the bill.
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:29 PM ZQ is offline  
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Nano
 
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Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
100 a month in electric is fucking expensive dude and you're not taking into consideration differences in cost of living

Not really. 100 is cheap as hell in texas.

Quote:
you forgot to include property taxes in the mortgage, another few grand. you forgot to include various forms of insurance, gas, the cost of clothing their children and a wide variety of other things.
I wasnt going into drastic detail, but hes still got 34k to deal with such things in. I didnt add any of that in for the 10k fella either.

Quote:
you can't just throw out two completely random examples to prove your point. what about the guy making 12 grand but living at home, not paying any rent at all?
Still shouldnt have to pay taxes. My point was a worst case vs best case. Stop nitpickin fucker.

Quote:
rest your case all you want but you still have no right to tell someone what their money is worth to them.

Its not a matter of worth, its a matter of ability to use it. Sure, the 100k guy wants all of his money, but you cant argue that for a person living alone on 10k that the 1k is worth more to him.
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:31 PM Nano is offline  
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rizla
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wow.. i didn't know there were people alive that still don't understand the reasons behind progressive taxation?
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:36 PM rizla is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano View Post
Not really. 100 is cheap as hell in texas.
And expensive as fuck here. Point is that your examples are ignoring a LOT of variables. [quote
I wasnt going into drastic detail, but hes still got 34k to deal with such things in. I didnt add any of that in for the 10k fella either. [/quote] That's the problem, you're ignoring the details.
Quote:
Still shouldnt have to pay taxes. My point was a worst case vs best case. Stop nitpickin fucker.
seriously? SERIOUSLY?
Quote:
Its not a matter of worth, its a matter of ability to use it. Sure, the 100k guy wants all of his money, but you cant argue that for a person living alone on 10k that the 1k is worth more to him.
Yes, it is a matter of worth. And yes, I can argue that because once again, you have no business deciding what someone else's income is worth to them, regardless of the amount.
Old 01-18-2008, 02:24 PM SemperFly is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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wow.. i didn't know there were people alive that still don't understand the reasons behind progressive taxation?

I understand the reasons quite clearly, I simply disagree with them.

My god, you love riding my ass.
Old 01-18-2008, 02:25 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
because whiny liberals demand a progressive tax so that people who are smarter, work harder and contribute more to society have to pay a greater portion of their income to support the lazy, uneducated and criminal.

lol, and the whiny rich people are always complaining about the lazy, uneducated, and criminal taking all their money despite the fact that they still control the vast majority of the wealth in the nation...

Quote:
In 2003, the most-earning 1% of the population in the United States, which has a system of progressive taxation, paid over 34% of the nation's federal income tax; the most-earning 10% bore 66% of the total tax load; the top 25% of income earners paid 84% of the income taxes; and the upper half accounted for virtually the entire U.S. income tax revenue (nearly 97%).

However, if the federal taxation rate ("Individual Income Tax Rates and Shares, 2004." (2006) published by IRS) is compared with the wealth distribution rate the net wealth (not only income but also including real estate, cars, house, stocks, etc) distribution of the United States does almost coincide with the share of income tax - the top 1% pay 36.9% of federal tax (wealth 32.7%), the top 5% pay 57.1% (earning 57.2%), top 10% pay 68% (wealth 69.8%), and the bottom 50% pay 3.3% (wealth 2.8%).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_..._United_States


I wonder how many of the hard core libertarians here in the pit are even in the top 10-15% of earners to be complaining about how unfairly they are being taxed to support all those damn lazy bums? How many of you are even in the 25% range?

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:09 PM pyramid is offline  
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Jason
 
It won't work for one reason. Spending is still out of control. The U.S. Government paid out right at 3 trillion dollars. A 10% flat tax would cut income taxes from 1.1 trillion to about 350 billion or so. All that would do would be to cause the government to add another 700 billion to the deficit every year. There is already about a trillion dollars of deficit as there is, so I don't think doubling that would be a good thing.
A flat tax would work with spending cuts though. Even with a 20% cut in spending, that is 600 billion dollars. That would cover the flat tax.
Old 01-18-2008, 03:27 PM Jason is offline  
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