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ApathyEcstasy
yeah, different species of slanteye here
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock
And you had a point where?

Was it that a following discussion about costs of defending a ship somehow has a deleterious effect on a systems performance?

PIF PIF PIF me some of what you are smoking

"In 10 scenarios, real Anti-Ship Missiles and supersonic Vandal target missiles (Mach 2.5) were intercepted and destroyed under realistic conditions. RAM Block 1 achieved first-shot kills on every target in its presented scenarios, including sea-skimming, diving and highly maneuvering profiles in both single and stream attacks."

"With these test firings RAM demonstrated its unparalleled success against today's most challenging threats. Cumulatively to date more than 180 missiles have been fired against anti-ship missiles and other targets, achieving a success rate over 95%"

The SeaRAM is a drop in replacement for the Phalanx system. The RAM missle itself is a mach 2, second generation derivative of the Sidewinder and Stinger missles. It features BOTH infrared and radar based target tracking, allowing for use against future low radar cross section (stealthy) anti-ship missles.

The effective range of the RAM missile is 11 miles. The CIWS part of the SeaRAM can track multiple targets and fire multiple missles at a single target. Each SeaRAM platform holds 11 RAM missiles.

Please don't tell me you actually think that a theoretical enemy would fire one missile per carrier. China has emphasized that they know they need to take unorthodox approaches towards fighting against a military force with superior technology. What makes you think they won't just mass produce these supersonic anti-ship missiles and fire mass barrages of them enough to overwhelm and exaust the SeaRAMs?
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Last edited by ApathyEcstasy; 07-20-2004 at 03:56 AM..
Old 07-20-2004, 03:53 AM ApathyEcstasy is offline  
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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy
Please don't tell me you actually think that a theoretical enemy would fire one missile per carrier.

RTFT igit

", diving and highly maneuvering profiles in both single and STREAM attacks."
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Old 07-20-2004, 03:56 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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#152  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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But I guess you are right It's not worth using such a probably expensive system to keep an Entire Carrier group from being splashed by Sunburn missiles. Hey the carrier is only worth multibillions of dollars and the planes only a hundred mill a pop and the 6000 people on the carrier can be easily replaced.

damned 13k'r
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Old 07-20-2004, 04:01 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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#153  

eidolon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
I'll spell it out for you

E X E R C I S E

If we do not exercise.. Then what the point of the military if they cannot coordinate a massive fleet.. The scale of this has not been attempted for sometimes since the Battle of Midway where there were 5 carriers.. However they did not have strike group sizes where there's about 12 ships in every carrier strike group in today's time.. 12 x 7 = 84 ships.. It's alot of coordinations..

"During the summer of 2004 the Navy will surge some aircraft carriers from their homeports … to generate as many as seven of 12 carriers on station … for Coalition operations. The ability to push that kind of military capability to the four corners of the world is quite remarkable and recent. Several years ago, the Navy could deploy only two. Through this series of deployments, surge operations and exercises, the Navy will demonstrate and exercise a new approach to operations and maintenance. "

Again.. The article still stands at a chomsky reference.. China is the victim and The United States is the aggressor..

As for Cuba.. They do have the Air Force and the SAM missiles to shoot down our fighters on par.. Their military is still effecient and well armed.. Why else does Castro keep it a military state?


It's not the exercise itself... It's the particular bit of ocean where those 84 ships are coalescing that is the point.
Old 07-20-2004, 04:15 AM eidolon is offline  
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#154  

onigami
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eidolon
It's not the exercise itself... It's the particular bit of ocean where those 84 ships are coalescing that is the point.
not all of those seven ships are going to asia; read the fucking thread
Old 07-20-2004, 05:57 AM onigami is offline  
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#155  

onigami
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock
But I guess you are right It's not worth using such a probably expensive system to keep an Entire Carrier group from being splashed by Sunburn missiles. Hey the carrier is only worth multibillions of dollars and the planes only a hundred mill a pop and the 6000 people on the carrier can be easily replaced.

damned 13k'r
in red storm rising (a shitty ass book I'd never read again), first >100 drones were launched against the carrier group and the aegis combat system exhausted its missile supply destroying most of them. f14s with phoenix's destroyed the rest. then the real missiles were launched. IIRC, one missile struck the carrier and just happened to hit the bridge, taking it out of commission.

assuming that the sea ram system works, where does this leave the aegis cruisers?

assuming that the sea ram system works, should we just put 10-20 on every large ship and let them defend themselves? I see a problem in that 21 missiles per launcher is quite pathetic when it is impossible to guarantee 100% effectiveness. what happens if there's jamming? carrier groups move much more slowly than a missile traveling at mach 3. let's say every ship was equipped with sea ram. they'd all have to be networked together in order to avoid shooting at the same target multiple times.
Old 07-20-2004, 06:06 AM onigami is offline  
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#156  

error-in-excellence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onigami
in red storm rising (a shitty ass book I'd never read again)

What's wrong with RSR?
Old 07-20-2004, 06:51 AM error-in-excellence is offline  
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#157  

onigami
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-in-excellence
What's wrong with RSR?
political intrigue and are more interesting to me than battle.
Old 07-20-2004, 06:58 AM onigami is offline  
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error-in-excellence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onigami
political intrigue and are more interesting to me than battle.

Heh. I like it the other way around but that's cool.
Old 07-20-2004, 07:01 AM error-in-excellence is offline  
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onigami
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-in-excellence
Heh. I like it the other way around but that's cool.
you can only rephrase 'the t72 fired a round at the abrams and missed' so many times...
Old 07-20-2004, 07:05 AM onigami is offline  
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#160  

PopeKevinI
 
edit: blah
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Last edited by PopeKevinI; 07-20-2004 at 07:34 AM..
Old 07-20-2004, 07:27 AM PopeKevinI is offline  
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#161  

PopeKevinI
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy
quoted from your link

"Don't get me wrong, this is all well and good but now that the technological questions are solved the real question is one of relative costs. How much does the bad guy spend for his offensive missile versus how much we spend on our defensive missile(s!), and how much does the platform being protected cost(not all platforms cost as much as a carrier or sub)? After all if it cost us 10 times as much to shoot down one of theirs we are on the wrong side of the lever."

Quote:
Um, so if an anti-theft device for your $30,000 car costs $100 and a coat hanger only costs 10 cents, the anti-theft device is not worthwhile???
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Old 07-20-2004, 07:33 AM PopeKevinI is offline  
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#162  

ViriiK
http://military.revenanteagle.org/
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy
Outdated != invalid

If that's the way you think, then I guess 9/11 never happened from your point of view because it's from OMG THE PAST.
Uhh Weren't you the one telling me that to update my "Time Stamps" on articles.. And now you're making exceptions for yourself.. Good job..
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Old 07-20-2004, 10:29 AM ViriiK is offline  
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#163  

arthur pendragon
TweedleDumbest
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy
You're assuming that you will have a wealth of time to respond to a sunburn launch

"When slower missiles, like the French Exocet are used, the maximum theoretical response time for the defending ship is 150-120 seconds. This provides time to launch countermeasures and employ jamming before deploying "hard" defense tactics such as launching missiles and using quick-firing artillery. But the 3M82 "Mosquito" missiles are extremely fast and give the defending side a maximum theoretical response time of merely 25-30 seconds, rendering it extremely difficult to employ jamming and countermeasures, let alone fire missiles and quick-firing artillery."

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/m...row/moskit.htm





You make an equally invalid assumption, that anyone would ever get the chance to fire more than one sunburn missile at US Naval targets. Are you forgetting what happened to Saddam’s fiber optics controlled Russian and Chinese designed air defense capabilities? Does F117 ring any bells at all? The only chance China has of launching any significant number of high speed missiles at the US Navy is in a Perl Harbor type surprise attack. Which I assure you they are never going to get the chance to do. Not to mention the Chinese know it would be an instantaneous act of suicide. The Chinese may well be the most arrogant pricks on the fact of the earth, but they are not stupid, not by a long shot.


.
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Last edited by arthur pendragon; 07-20-2004 at 10:57 AM..
Old 07-20-2004, 10:53 AM arthur pendragon is offline  
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#164  

Magik Smoke
 
then there's the fact that Aegis has killed smaller targets, flying lower, at higher speed.
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Old 07-20-2004, 11:05 AM Magik Smoke is offline  
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