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Magik Smoke
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onigami
pray tell - what do you do if multiple squadrons of su-33s launch 80-100 missiles at a carrier group? and what if they had decoy missiles? what if they had mig-25s running as decoys?

Throw in Godzilla and Mothra and you have a winner there.
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Old 07-20-2004, 02:54 PM Magik Smoke is offline  
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onigami
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magik Smoke
Throw in Godzilla and Mothra and you have a winner there.
what about unicron?
Old 07-20-2004, 03:06 PM onigami is offline  
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#182  

fatrat
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onigami
pray tell - what do you do if multiple squadrons of su-33s launch 80-100 missiles at a carrier group? and what if they had decoy missiles? what if they had mig-25s running as decoys?

Simple:

I sink their carriers with a submarine long before they get close enough to try firing one of those bad boys at me.

If the boats are at the bottom, sunburns don't do you any good.

Also remember I still have my air force in the air as well to kill off the rest of the planes they can scramble before they can launch any sunburns.

Joint strike fighters are so cool for stuff like that.
Old 07-20-2004, 03:13 PM fatrat is offline  
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#183  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onigami
in red storm rising (a shitty ass book I'd never read again), first >100 drones were launched against the carrier group and the aegis combat system exhausted its missile supply destroying most of them. f14s with phoenix's destroyed the rest. then the real missiles were launched. IIRC, one missile struck the carrier and just happened to hit the bridge, taking it out of commission.

assuming that the sea ram system works, where does this leave the aegis cruisers?

assuming that the sea ram system works, should we just put 10-20 on every large ship and let them defend themselves? I see a problem in that 21 missiles per launcher is quite pathetic when it is impossible to guarantee 100% effectiveness. what happens if there's jamming? carrier groups move much more slowly than a missile traveling at mach 3. let's say every ship was equipped with sea ram. they'd all have to be networked together in order to avoid shooting at the same target multiple times.

No system has an infinite amount of ammo.Including the enemy. Fortuneatly we dont live in a Tom Clancy novel where an enemy can amass that much firepower with us sitting with our thumbs up our asses and not matching it or making them move it You Did hear about that situation in Cuba that Kennedy took care of right?
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Old 07-20-2004, 03:15 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#184  

CrazyCanuck
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock
No system has an infinite amount of ammo.Including the enemy. Fortuneatly we dont live in a Tom Clancy novel where an enemy can amass that much firepower with us sitting with our thumbs up our asses and not matching it or making them move it You Did hear about that situation in Cuba that Kennedy took care of right?


Strategic nuclear weapons are not comparable to tactical cruise missles. Those sunburns you're discussing are a lot cheaper to produce, and easier to hide.

And remember, in a scenario where American carriers are defending Taiwan from China, they may be positioned in the Strait, where chinese patrol boats, diesel submarines, and strike fighters can use geographical factors to get closer to an American carrier group than would be possible in open ocean. (Ideally, carriers would be positioned of the East coast of Taiwan, but they may need to sail into the straight for some reason.)
Old 07-20-2004, 05:58 PM CrazyCanuck is offline  
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#185  

CrazyCanuck
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onigami
thanks for summarizing my post


Old 07-20-2004, 05:59 PM CrazyCanuck is offline  
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#186  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck
Strategic nuclear weapons are not comparable to tactical cruise missles. Those sunburns you're discussing are a lot cheaper to produce, and easier to hide.

And remember, in a scenario where American carriers are defending Taiwan from China, they may be positioned in the Strait, where chinese patrol boats, diesel submarines, and strike fighters can use geographical factors to get closer to an American carrier group than would be possible in open ocean. (Ideally, carriers would be positioned of the East coast of Taiwan, but they may need to sail into the straight for some reason.)

But because of a possible encounter awacs type planes would be in the air and this cover will not be relevent.

As I posted earlier the russian super cavitation torps would be the gravest concern. I just don't know if they are operational.


http://www.deepangel.com/html/the_squall.html

"A downgraded Shkval, the Shkval-E went to an international arms fairs in 1995, and both China, Iran and France have been known to have acquired limited numbers of Shkvals."
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Last edited by TheMorlock; 07-20-2004 at 06:06 PM..
Old 07-20-2004, 06:02 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#187  

CrazyCanuck
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock
But because of a possible encounter awacs type planes would be in the air and this cover will not be relevent.

As I posted earlier the russian super cavitation torps would be the gravest concern. I just don't know if they are operational.


http://www.deepangel.com/html/the_squall.html

"A downgraded Shkval, the Shkval-E went to an international arms fairs in 1995, and both China, Iran and France have been known to have acquired limited numbers of Shkvals."

But the AWACS birds from the carriers can't detect surface vessels or subs. I know the USAF has a plane that can track vehicles and presumbably naval vessels, but will one be on hand in Taiwan if a fight starts?

And you can bet the Shkval will be part of the Chinese anti-carriers research and preparations.
Old 07-20-2004, 06:12 PM CrazyCanuck is offline  
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#188  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck
But the AWACS birds from the carriers can't detect surface vessels or subs. I know the USAF has a plane that can track vehicles and presumbably naval vessels, but will one be on hand in Taiwan if a fight starts?

And you can bet the Shkval will be part of the Chinese anti-carriers research and preparations.

The navy itself has sub catcher aricraft. Which of course can easily see surface ships. Also I doubt that an awacs has trouble spotting a missile carrier surface ship. But don't really know.

Put it this way. If Their ships can see ours to fire on them We can see theirs.
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Old 07-20-2004, 06:16 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#189  

ApathyEcstasy
yeah, different species of slanteye here
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock
But because of a possible encounter awacs type planes would be in the air and this cover will not be relevent.

As I posted earlier the russian super cavitation torps would be the gravest concern. I just don't know if they are operational.


http://www.deepangel.com/html/the_squall.html

"A downgraded Shkval, the Shkval-E went to an international arms fairs in 1995, and both China, Iran and France have been known to have acquired limited numbers of Shkvals."

shit that weapon looks hardcore
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Old 07-20-2004, 06:22 PM ApathyEcstasy is offline  
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#190  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy
shit that weapon looks hardcore

And since radar don't do shit underwater and it's traveling faster than sound can in water it's effectively invisible. And it's pretty.

Maybe a spectral sensor that can detect it's rockets emmision signature.
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Old 07-20-2004, 06:44 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#191  

CrazyCanuck
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock
The navy itself has sub catcher aricraft. Which of course can easily see surface ships. Also I doubt that an awacs has trouble spotting a missile carrier surface ship. But don't really know.

Put it this way. If Their ships can see ours to fire on them We can see theirs.

But an average carrier will have 6-12 of those sub-hunter airplanes at most, not enough to cover the entire ocean. And I'm thinking mainly of fast patrol boats operating near the chinese coast ... basically motorboats with a couple cruise missiles strapped on the back.
Old 07-20-2004, 06:47 PM CrazyCanuck is offline  
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#192  

CrazyCanuck
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock
And since radar don't do shit underwater and it's traveling faster than sound can in water it's effectively invisible. And it's pretty.

Maybe a spectral sensor that can detect it's rockets emmision signature.

If it's targetted against a surface vessel you might be able to see a wake on the surface.

edit: What you would do about it I don't know. The russians used to have a multiplr rocket launsher deal they used against subs. Presumably, a similar system could be used as a last ditch defense against this.

Last edited by CrazyCanuck; 07-20-2004 at 06:50 PM..
Old 07-20-2004, 06:48 PM CrazyCanuck is offline  
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#193  

spoonage
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shock
**organization.

**organisation is acceptable.

Main Entry: or·ga·ni·za·tion
Variant: also British or·ga·ni·sa·tion /"org-(&-)n&-'zA-sh&n/

Every other English speaking country apart from the US use commonwealth language, so organisation is more correct. Also, USA and some obscure small country are the only ones left to use imperial, get with the times :P
Old 07-20-2004, 06:50 PM spoonage is offline  
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#194  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck
But an average carrier will have 6-12 of those sub-hunter airplanes at most, not enough to cover the entire ocean. And I'm thinking mainly of fast patrol boats operating near the chinese coast ... basically motorboats with a couple cruise missiles strapped on the back.

good point
But. The carrier is not operating alone. That's why its called a carrier group. With the carrier protected by it's escorts and support vessels.

It's not likely for some time to have another Stark event where the captain was too stupid to have coverage while the ciws was off.

If you get launches from PT style boats then all small shipping would get wiped with appoligies to any fishermens families.
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Last edited by TheMorlock; 07-20-2004 at 06:54 PM..
Old 07-20-2004, 06:50 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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