General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
ApathyEcstasy
yeah, different species of slanteye here
 
ApathyEcstasy's Avatar
 
i agree that this article makes many assumptions, but it's so that the bottom line and main point are made obvious...this is a pointless oldschool cold war military show of might
__________________
7.9%, Chinese growth has screeched to a halt! People
are going to riot in the streets! The CCP is about to
fall!
8.1%, Chinese growth has over-heated! People are
going to riot in the streets! The CCP is about to fall!
Old 07-19-2004, 07:54 AM ApathyEcstasy is offline  
Reply With Quote
#16  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

error-in-excellence
 
Let's see...

neocons
militarists
idealogues

This article is left-wing fearmongering.
Old 07-19-2004, 07:55 AM error-in-excellence is offline  
Reply With Quote
#17  

ApathyEcstasy
yeah, different species of slanteye here
 
ApathyEcstasy's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-in-excellence
Let's see...

neocons
militarists
idealogues

This article is left-wing fearmongering.

yeah..and instead of looking for keywords that you want to use to disqualify the entire article..you could look at the bare facts...7 carrier strike groups off the shores of an unfriendly coast..looks like a classic case of bravado showcase of strength, goal being to provoke and threaten

everyone knows that this taiwan crisis is a very delicate situation, and china is willing to use force to take the island if that's what it all comes down to...the U.S. wants to send the message that they can and may prevent that from happening, through intervention, but the bottom line is that U.S. military (funding as well) is stretched too far as it is and won't be able to handle another major thing anytime in the near future
__________________
7.9%, Chinese growth has screeched to a halt! People
are going to riot in the streets! The CCP is about to
fall!
8.1%, Chinese growth has over-heated! People are
going to riot in the streets! The CCP is about to fall!

Last edited by ApathyEcstasy; 07-19-2004 at 08:19 AM..
Old 07-19-2004, 08:12 AM ApathyEcstasy is offline  
Reply With Quote
#18  

Simon K
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-in-excellence
Let's see...

neocons
militarists
idealogues

This article is left-wing fearmongering.



If it's a veritable mainstream media source, then how could this issue go virtually unchecked by other sources? And of course, we have to assume the Chinese reaction would be war before diplomacy, right?
Alarmism.
Old 07-19-2004, 08:18 AM  
Reply With Quote
#19  

error-in-excellence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy
yeah..and instead of looking for keywords that you want to use to disqualify the entire article..you could look at the bare facts...7 carrier strike groups off the shores of an unfriendly coast..looks like a classic case of bravado showcase of strength, goal being to provoke and threaten

everyone knows that this taiwan crisis is a very delicate situation, and china is willing to use force to take the island if that's what it all comes down to...the U.S. wants to send the message that they can and may prevent that from happening, through intervention, but the bottom line is that U.S. military (funding as well) is stretched too far as it is and won't be able to handle another major thing anytime in the near future

The goal of this is an excercise to make Carrier Battle Groups work together. If they don't practice, how the fuck can they coordinate?

Quote:
Under the FRP construct, the Navy can provide six CSGs in less than 30 days to support contingency operations around the globe, and two more CSGs can be ready in three months to reinforce or rotate with initially responding forces, to continue presence operations in other parts of the world, or to support military action in another crisis. “Summer Pulse 04” will exercise the logistics and shore infrastructure necessary to execute a large scale surge operation, stress the operational concepts in the Navy’s Sea Power 21 strategy, and improve Navy interoperability with numerous allies and coalition partners as well as other U.S. military forces.
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/...0602-0856.html

China is well aware of the capabilities of the US's CBGs. Putting them together for an excercise changes nothing.

Of course none of this makes any sense to you and you'll just be scared shitless by it.
Old 07-19-2004, 08:39 AM error-in-excellence is offline  
Reply With Quote
#20  

ieyeasu
 
ieyeasu's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
It's called International Waters.. The military has the rights to do that.. Especially with Taiwan granting them the authorization to do in their own waters...

And this chomsky is blown out of proportion..

Chomsky wouldn't have shit to do with this. If you've problems with Chomsky, make a thread about it.

[/knightshiningarmour]
__________________
www.pizzasaucerecipe.org
Old 07-19-2004, 09:31 AM ieyeasu is offline  
Reply With Quote
#21  

ViriiK
http://military.revenanteagle.org/
 
ViriiK's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ieyeasu
Chomsky wouldn't have shit to do with this. If you've problems with Chomsky, make a thread about it.

[/knightshiningarmour]
Just making a point that the person writing the article is thinking like Chomsky... Calling the US as aggressors and praising the Chinese as the innocent's.. When China is still threatening the island of invasion whether or not we are involved..

It seems similar to the Klamir (SP?) Rouge where Chomsky denied that was happening and he still to this date denies it..
__________________
- [M]ayhem Gun Club
- [M]ilitary [M]ayhem Club
- Secretary of Defense for the PopeKevinI Administration
- Proud Sponsor of the American Military-Industrial Complex
Old 07-19-2004, 10:53 AM ViriiK is offline  
Reply With Quote
#22  

fatrat
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
Just making a point that the person writing the article is thinking like Chomsky... Calling the US as aggressors and praising the Chinese as the innocent's.. When China is still threatening the island of invasion whether or not we are involved..

It seems similar to the Klamir (SP?) Rouge where Chomsky denied that was happening and he still to this date denies it..

First off, the spelling is Khmer Rouge. Here's a history link for ya:

http://www.mekong.net/cambodia/banyan1.htm

Also, I can tell you this is yet another of a series of exercises that the US has been doing for at least decade. They happen every two years and nobody's gone to war over them yet.

Check the history of events like RIMPAC and see what is really going on here.

Also note the proximity of North Korea. Think that might have some bearing on this exercise as well?

Nah, we are just trying to intimidate China. Couldn't be NK.
Old 07-19-2004, 11:06 AM fatrat is offline  
Reply With Quote
#23  

fatrat
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy
yeah..and instead of looking for keywords that you want to use to disqualify the entire article..you could look at the bare facts...7 carrier strike groups off the shores of an unfriendly coast..looks like a classic case of bravado showcase of strength, goal being to provoke and threaten

everyone knows that this taiwan crisis is a very delicate situation, and china is willing to use force to take the island if that's what it all comes down to...the U.S. wants to send the message that they can and may prevent that from happening, through intervention, but the bottom line is that U.S. military (funding as well) is stretched too far as it is and won't be able to handle another major thing anytime in the near future

Only problem with your analysis is the US has been doing similar exercises for at least a decade, and nothing more than new friendships among allies has come of it.

Check out RIMPAC and see what I am talking about. It's nothing new and has been going on more than you want to believe.
Old 07-19-2004, 11:09 AM fatrat is offline  
Reply With Quote
#24  

ViriiK
http://military.revenanteagle.org/
 
ViriiK's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatrat
First off, the spelling is Khmer Rouge. Here's a history link for ya:

http://www.mekong.net/cambodia/banyan1.htm

Also, I can tell you this is yet another of a series of exercises that the US has been doing for at least decade. They happen every two years and nobody's gone to war over them yet.

Check the history of events like RIMPAC and see what is really going on here.

Also note the proximity of North Korea. Think that might have some bearing on this exercise as well?

Nah, we are just trying to intimidate China. Couldn't be NK.
Millions of people died at the Khmer Rouge because of the Pol Pot Government there.. Not our intervention.. Chomsky denied it happened there.. When it did..

Anyways the carrier fleet are working to coordinate action together in massive numbers.. Which hasn't been done since WWII.. Battle of Midway involved 5 carriers..

"During the summer of 2004 the Navy will surge some aircraft carriers from their homeports … to generate as many as seven of 12 carriers on station … for Coalition operations. The ability to push that kind of military capability to the four corners of the world is quite remarkable and recent. Several years ago, the Navy could deploy only two. Through this series of deployments, surge operations and exercises, the Navy will demonstrate and exercise a new approach to operations and maintenance. "
__________________
- [M]ayhem Gun Club
- [M]ilitary [M]ayhem Club
- Secretary of Defense for the PopeKevinI Administration
- Proud Sponsor of the American Military-Industrial Complex

Last edited by ViriiK; 07-19-2004 at 11:44 AM..
Old 07-19-2004, 11:29 AM ViriiK is offline  
Reply With Quote
#25  

Free_Willy
 
Free_Willy's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-in-excellence
Let's see...

neocons
militarists
idealogues

This article is left-wing fearmongering.
Oh I get it! Any piece not hailing the virtues of the conservative Republican line is of curse, fear mongering, right?

God forbid you take facts as facts, and sailing 7 battle fleets off another nations coast (one that arguably has a tense relationship with the US) is without a doubt, quite verifiable.
__________________
"It's a jungle here--right now we're advising our clients to put all they can into canned goods and shotguns!"

--- Brain Gremlin in the movie Gremlins II: The New Batch.

Discordian Resistance Front, Co. A, Semi-Conscious Liberation Army.
Old 07-19-2004, 12:23 PM Free_Willy is offline  
Reply With Quote
#26  

ViriiK
http://military.revenanteagle.org/
 
ViriiK's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_Willy
Oh I get it! Any piece not hailing the virtues of the conservative Republican line is of curse, fear mongering, right?

God forbid you take facts as facts, and sailing 7 battle fleets off another nations coast (one that arguable has a tense relationship with the US) is without a doubt, quite verifiable.
Look you jackass.. This is obviously a biased article and thinking that we're trying to encourage a shooting war.. We always have exercises.. If we fail to have exercises.. Then our military would be inefficent and a waste of tax dollars..

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/ex.htm

ANNUALEX Bilateral USN/JMSDF Maritime Exercise
CARAT Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training:
Bilateral SEA readiness and training exercise with Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, Brunei, Indonesia
COBRA GOLD Joint air/land/sea/SOF exercise with Thailand
COOP from the Sea Joint US/Russia amphib/humanitarian disaster relief exercise
CROCODILE Joint/combined Fleet Training Exercise with maritime/land defense focus with Australia
DUGONG Bilateral Very Shallow Water explosive ordinance disposal/Mine exercise with Australia
FLASH IROQUIOIS Interoperability training between SOCPAC NSW and Indian SOF
FOAL EAGLE Joint/combined training exercise in support of defense of Korea
HONG KONG SAREX Improve multilateral coordination in Western Pacific
INDUSA Bilateral naval training exercise series with Indonesia
INDUSA RECONEX Bilateral reconnaissance exercise with Indonesia
INDUSA SALVEX Bilateral USN/Indonesia salvage training
JMSDF DIESELEX Anti-diesel submarine exercise with JMSDF
JMSDF EODEX Bilateral JMSDF/USN explosive ordinance disposal exercise
JMSDF MCMEX Bilateral JMSDF/USN mine countermeasure exercise
JMSDF MINEX Bilateral JMSDF/USN Mining exercise
JTFEX Joint Task Force Exercise for deploying carrier battle groups and amphibious ready groups
KEEN SWORD Joint/Bilateral exercise to increase readiness/interoperability for defense of Japan
LUNGFISH Bilateral Australia/USN submarine Undersea Warfare exercise
MALABAR Suface/Submarine/Air interoperability exercise with India
Malay EODEX Bilateral Malaysia/USN explosive ordinance disposal exercise with Malaysia
MALAY MINEX Bilateral Malaysia/USN mine exercise with Malaysia
MERLION Bilateral exercise emphasizing interoperability with US carrier battle groups and Singapore
MERLYNX Bilateral exercise for maritime special operations with Singapore
RIMPAC Rim of the Pacific: Biennial large scale multi-national carrier battle group power projection and sea control exercise.
ROKN ANTISOFEX Bilateral anti-special operations forces exercise with Republic of Korea
ROKN DIESELEX Bilateral anti diesel submarine training exercise with Republic of Korea
ROKN EODEX Bilateral USN/ROKN explosive ordinance disposal exercise with Republic of Korea
ROKN MCMEX Bilateral USN/ROKN mine countermeasure exercise with Republic of Korea
ROKN MINEX Bilateral USN/ROKN mine exercise with Republic of Korea
ROKN SALVEX Bilateral USN/ROKN salvage exercise with Republic of Korea
ROKN SEALEX Bilateral USN/ROKN SEAL exercise with Republic of Korea
ROKN SUBEX Bilateral USN/ROKN submarine vs. submarine exercise with Republic of Korea
SEABAT Bilateral maritime exercise with Bangladesh
TANDEM THRUST Joint readiness exercise to improve interoperability and validate PACOM two-tiered command control concept.
THAI MINEX Bilateral USN/THAI mine exercise
THAI SALVEX Bilateral USN/THAI salvage exercise
TRICRAB Multi-national explosive ordinance disposal exercise with Australia and Singapore
ULCHI-FOCUS LENS Joint/combined exercise conducted in conjunction with Republic of Korea national mobilization exercise
UNDERSEAL Bilateral special warfare training with Thai SEALS
VALIANT MARK Small scale bilateral amphibious exercise with Singapore
VALIANT USHER Joint/combined regimental size amphibious landing exercise
__________________
- [M]ayhem Gun Club
- [M]ilitary [M]ayhem Club
- Secretary of Defense for the PopeKevinI Administration
- Proud Sponsor of the American Military-Industrial Complex
Old 07-19-2004, 12:25 PM ViriiK is offline  
Reply With Quote
#27  

Free_Willy
 
Free_Willy's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
Millions of people died at the Khmer Rouge because of the Pol Pot Government there.. Not our intervention.. Chomsky denied it happened there.. When it did..

Anyways the carrier fleet are working to coordinate action together in massive numbers.. Which hasn't been done since WWII.. Battle of Midway involved 5 carriers..

1. This piece was not reported by Chomsky, therefore Chomsky is irrelevant.

2. The world is what? About 70% covered with water?... they cant do these maeuvers *anywhere* else? And dont give me the shit about international waters... that extends a mere 100 miles off ones coast! Childs play for the 80 odd jets on just one carrier! Not to mention China *still* thinks Taiwan is part of it!
__________________
"It's a jungle here--right now we're advising our clients to put all they can into canned goods and shotguns!"

--- Brain Gremlin in the movie Gremlins II: The New Batch.

Discordian Resistance Front, Co. A, Semi-Conscious Liberation Army.
Old 07-19-2004, 12:27 PM Free_Willy is offline  
Reply With Quote
#28  

ViriiK
http://military.revenanteagle.org/
 
ViriiK's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_Willy
1. This piece was not reported by Chomsky, therefore Chomsky is irrelevant.

2. The wrold is what? About 70% covered with water?... they cant do these maeuvers *anywhere* else? And dont give me the shit about international waters... that extends a mere 100 miles off ones coast! Childs play for the 80 odd jets on just one carrier! Not to mention China *still* thinks Taiwan is part of it!
1. No shit it wasn't reported by chomsky.. But it's getting there to the point where the reporter is thinking like chomsky.. Praise one another.. But calls the other the aggressor..

2. Cuba flies air force right off our coast yet in International Waters.. Does that mean they're trying to start a shooting war? We have rules of the water and as long the carriers are still in International or Taiwanese Waters. China cannot do anything about it.. China may think it's their island but we swore to protect the Taiwanese from invasion.. Hence China can't do shit with us in the way..
__________________
- [M]ayhem Gun Club
- [M]ilitary [M]ayhem Club
- Secretary of Defense for the PopeKevinI Administration
- Proud Sponsor of the American Military-Industrial Complex
Old 07-19-2004, 12:29 PM ViriiK is offline  
Reply With Quote
#29  

Free_Willy
 
Free_Willy's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
1. No shit it wasn't reported by chomsky.. But it's getting there to the point where the reporter is thinking like chomsky.. Praise one another.. But calls the other the aggressor..

2. Cuba flies air force right off our coast yet in International Waters.. Does that mean they're trying to start a shooting war? We have rules of the water and as long the carriers are still in International or Taiwanese Waters. China cannot do anything about it.. China may think it's their island but we swore to protect the Taiwanese from invasion.. Hence China can't do shit with us in the way..

1. I disagree, are you saying that unless one reports things in an un-Chomsky like manner (One that in no way "damages conservative principles" or agendas) is is to be discarded?

2. Cuba does not have 7 carrier fleets. Thier entire armed forces couldnt scare the Miami dade police deparment!

The cold war happened because of the "threat" from the "other side"... in the piece the author says that China knws it cannot defeat 7 carrier fleets - and it may embark in its own crash research to met our "threat". How can this not be seen as a hostile action by us?
__________________
"It's a jungle here--right now we're advising our clients to put all they can into canned goods and shotguns!"

--- Brain Gremlin in the movie Gremlins II: The New Batch.

Discordian Resistance Front, Co. A, Semi-Conscious Liberation Army.
Old 07-19-2004, 12:34 PM Free_Willy is offline  
Reply With Quote
#30  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:12 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.