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ViriiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_Willy
1. I disagree, are you saying that unless one reports things in an un-Chomsky like manner (One that in no way "damages conservative principles" or agendas) is is to be discarded?

2. Cuba does not have 7 carrier fleets. Thier entire armed forces couldnt scare the Miami dade police deparment!

The cold war happened because of the "threat" from the "other side"... in the piece the author says that China knws it cannot defeat 7 carrier fleets - and it may embark in its own crash research to met our "threat". How can this not be seen as a hostile action by us?
I'll spell it out for you

E X E R C I S E

If we do not exercise.. Then what the point of the military if they cannot coordinate a massive fleet.. The scale of this has not been attempted for sometimes since the Battle of Midway where there were 5 carriers.. However they did not have strike group sizes where there's about 12 ships in every carrier strike group in today's time.. 12 x 7 = 84 ships.. It's alot of coordinations..

"During the summer of 2004 the Navy will surge some aircraft carriers from their homeports to generate as many as seven of 12 carriers on station for Coalition operations. The ability to push that kind of military capability to the four corners of the world is quite remarkable and recent. Several years ago, the Navy could deploy only two. Through this series of deployments, surge operations and exercises, the Navy will demonstrate and exercise a new approach to operations and maintenance. "

Again.. The article still stands at a chomsky reference.. China is the victim and The United States is the aggressor..

As for Cuba.. They do have the Air Force and the SAM missiles to shoot down our fighters on par.. Their military is still effecient and well armed.. Why else does Castro keep it a military state?
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Last edited by ViriiK; 07-19-2004 at 12:40 PM..
Old 07-19-2004, 12:36 PM ViriiK is offline  
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Free_Willy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
I'll spell it out for you

E X E R C I S E

If we do not exercise.. Then what the point of the military if they cannot coordinate a massive fleet.. The scale of this has not been attempted for sometimes since the Battle of Midway where there were 5 carriers..

Again.. The article still stands at a chomsky reference.. China is the victim and The United States is the aggressor..

Ill say it again too:

DO THEY HAVE TO EXERCISE RIGHT THE FUCK OFF A HOSTILE NATIONS COAST WITH THE LARGEST BATTLE FLEET ON THE PLANET?

and again:

CHOMSKY DIDNT WRITE THIS ARTICLE
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Old 07-19-2004, 12:41 PM Free_Willy is offline  
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ViriiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_Willy
Ill say it again too:

DO THEY HAVE TO EXERCISE RIGHT THE FUCK OFF A HOSTILE NATIONS COAST WITH THE LARGEST BATTLE FLEET ON THE PLANET?

and again:

CHOMSKY DIDNT WRITE THIS ARTICLE
A) Yes in International and Taiwanese Waters if they approve which I bet they already got..
B) Where did I say Chomsky write this article? The author is thinking like Chomsky.. God you're fucking thick..


See this? This is Hong Kong..
If they have an LHA there in close proxmity with China.. Why are they going to care about 7 Carriers?
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Last edited by ViriiK; 07-19-2004 at 12:48 PM..
Old 07-19-2004, 12:42 PM ViriiK is offline  
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ViriiK
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Oh and sorry to disappoint you and your biased article.. RIMPAC is actually taking place around the Hawaiian Island as it did in 2002 and 2000..
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Old 07-19-2004, 12:56 PM ViriiK is offline  
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Free_Willy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
A) Yes in International and Taiwanese Waters if they approve which I bet they already got..
B) Where did I say Chomsky write this article? The author is thinking like Chomsky.. God you're fucking thick..


See this? This is Hong Kong..
If they have an LHA there in close proxmity with China.. Why are they going to care about 7 Carriers?

ONE HLA is no match for 7 carrier GROUPS!
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:05 PM Free_Willy is offline  
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ViriiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_Willy
ONE HLA is no match for 7 carrier GROUPS!
And your point is? My point with that picture was.. If they have an LHA in Hong Kong which FYI is a ship full of killing machines (Marines).. Why would the chinese care about the Carrier Group as well if they're doing exercises.... In.... Hawaii...
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:06 PM ViriiK is offline  
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Operation Summer Pulse '04 was almost surely dreamed up at the Pearl Harbor headquarters of the U.S. Pacific Command and its commander, Adm. Thomas B. Fargo, and endorsed by neocons in the Pentagon. It is doubtful that Congress was consulted. This only goes to show that our foreign policy is increasingly made by the Pentagon.
I just noticed this.

"was almost surely dreamed up" - meaning "I don't know where the idea was conceived, but it might have been here".

"endorsed by the neocons at the Pentagon" - neocon is almost a hate word these days. Of course the action was approved by the Pentagon, for seven carrier groups it would have to be.

" It is doubtful that Congress was consulted." - Again, meaning "I don't know, so I assumed"

From which the conclusion is drawn that the Pentagon is setting policy.

So he THINKS that the decision was made in Pearl Harbor, ASSUMES it was approved by the Pentagon, and DOUBTS that Congress was consulted? Yeah, that's a really strong case. This would be laughed out of a high school debate class
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:09 PM PopeKevinI is offline  
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Free_Willy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
And your point is? My point with that picture was.. If they have an LHA in Hong Kong which FYI is a ship full of killing machines (Marines).. Why would the chinese care about the Carrier Group as well if they're doing exercises.... In.... Hawaii...
But the Chinese arent doing excercise WE are right the fuck of thier coast with a HUGE fleet! You know as well as I do that parking carriers off a trouble spots coast has been a tactic used for many years for intimidation.
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:11 PM Free_Willy is offline  
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ViriiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopeKevinI
I just noticed this.

"was almost surely dreamed up" - meaning "I don't know where the idea was conceived, but it might have been here".

"endorsed by the neocons at the Pentagon" - neocon is almost a hate word these days. Of course the action was approved by the Pentagon, for seven carrier groups it would have to be.

" It is doubtful that Congress was consulted." - Again, meaning "I don't know, so I assumed"

From which the conclusion is drawn that the Pentagon is setting policy.

So he THINKS that the decision was made in Pearl Harbor, ASSUMES it was approved by the Pentagon, and DOUBTS that Congress was consulted? Yeah, that's a really strong case. This would be laughed out of a high school debate class

Congress are always consulted on this issue.. That's why we have the Armed Services Committee.. All issues that will be happening within the defense fiscal year are explained to in front of the committee behind closed doors for obvious reasons..
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:14 PM ViriiK is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_Willy
But the Chinese arent doing excercise WE are right the fuck of thier coast with a HUGE fleet! You know as well as I do that parking carriers off a trouble spots coast has been a tactic used for many years for intimidation.
Hawaii =! Chinese Coast

Distance from Honolulu to Hong Kong? 5,549 miles..

So theortically.. If they had all that space.. They have 25,000,000 square miles to practice in
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Last edited by ViriiK; 07-19-2004 at 01:18 PM..
Old 07-19-2004, 01:15 PM ViriiK is offline  
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PopeKevinI
 
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Originally Posted by ViriiK
Congress are always consulted on this issue.. That's why we have the Armed Services Committee.. All issues that will be happening within the defense fiscal year are explained to in front of the committee behind closed doors for obvious reasons..

Yeah, I just grabbed that section of the article for a demonstration of its obvious bias and lack of factual basis.
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:28 PM PopeKevinI is offline  
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Sanchi
 
First, this is an op/ed piece, and opinions are like assholes, we all have one and they all stink.

Quote:
DO THEY HAVE TO EXERCISE RIGHT THE FUCK OFF A HOSTILE NATIONS COAST WITH THE LARGEST BATTLE FLEET ON THE PLANET?
In responce from this guy's "opinion"
Quote:
Taiwanese ships will join the seven carriers
Could it be the fact that this is with TAIWAN that it could be near TAIWAN. Would this make sence? Not to you.

Quote:
Needless to say, the Chinese are not amused. They say that their naval and air forces, plus their land-based rockets, are capable of taking on one or two carrier strike groups but that combat with seven would overwhelm them. So even before a carrier reaches the Taiwan Strait, Beijing has announced it will embark on a crash project that will enable it to meet and defeat seven U.S. carrier strike groups within a decade. There's every chance the Chinese will succeed if they are not overtaken by war first.
Takeing on one to two carrier groups would not be defeating one to two carrier groups. Sorry they would loose. Outnumbered 10:1 in a naval battle we would still win handly.

Quote:
China is easily the fastest-growing big economy in the world, with a growth rate of 9.1% last year. On June 28, the BBC reported that China had passed the U.S. as the world's biggest recipient of foreign direct investment. China attracted $53 billion worth of new factories in 2003, whereas the U.S. took in only $40 billion; India, $4 billion; and Russia, a measly $1 billion.
China includes Industrial Investment in thier GDP numbers. The rest of the world does not. China's GDP + II is about 200-300% over thier true GDP. Also take a look at China's GNP vs thier GDP.

Quote:
These ideologues appear to be trying to precipitate a confrontation with China while they still have the chance. Today, they happen to have rabidly anti-Chinese governments in Taipei and Tokyo as allies, but these governments don't have the popular support of their own citizens.
I beleave the leaders of Taiwan and Japan were reelected. How is this not popular support of their own citizens?
Old 07-19-2004, 01:34 PM Sanchi is offline  
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Free_Willy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
Hawaii =! Chinese Coast

Distance from Honolulu to Hong Kong? 5,549 miles..

So theortically.. If they had all that space.. They have 25,000,000 square miles to practice in

Yah but thier not "practicing" near Hawaii.. thier "Practicing (with 7 huge carrier fleets) in the Taiwaan Streights which is a place that China asserts is STILL THIERS. Therefore "International waters" is Debatable if China feels Taiwaan is still thiers!
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:35 PM Free_Willy is offline  
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ViriiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_Willy
Yah but thier not "practicing" near Hawaii.. thier "Practicing (with 7 huge carrier fleets) in the Taiwaan Streights which is a place that China asserts is STILL THIERS. Therefore "International waters" is Debatable if China feels Taiwaan is still thiers!
I guess you're an expert on Military Locations.. RIMPAC as usual have always been in Hawaii since 2000 including 2002.. And the location will be the same.. In Hawaii..

Show me a credible site that shows the exercise being conducted in the China Sea.. Pearl Harbor is home to several carriers with Bremerton & San Diego home to several of the others ones.. This being an exercise.. The navy does not ship 7 major carriers half way across the world when Hawaii is a shorter distance.. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of seamen's and with a budget..
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Last edited by ViriiK; 07-19-2004 at 01:42 PM..
Old 07-19-2004, 01:39 PM ViriiK is offline  
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PopeKevinI
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_Willy
Yah but thier not "practicing" near Hawaii.. thier "Practicing (with 7 huge carrier fleets) in the Taiwaan Streights which is a place that China asserts is STILL THIERS. Therefore "International waters" is Debatable if China feels Taiwaan is still thiers!

Umm...what he's saying is that the operations will be done at Hawaii, not off the Chinese coast.

Do you have anything besides an op/ed that says otherwise?
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:40 PM PopeKevinI is offline  
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