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Renork
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saberz View Post
Making a drug like this available OTC would be incredibly irresponsible. We're talking about giving out amphetamines to anyone would wants it, and the side effects of them are numerous.

So slap a few age restrictions on them. As long as alcohol and tobacco are legal this line of argument against brain boosting drugs is rather moot.
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:51 AM Renork is offline  
#16  

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Ralph
 
The people taking adderall are possibly wiser and more motivated than you because they go out of their way to get the tools necessary for them to perform at their best. If you weren't so self-righteous you might do the same, but I suppose you're busy making sure you're handicapped in every way possible so your success is THAT much more valiant than everyone else's...

Like others have said, you're contradicting yourself if you do anything like take vitamins, drink coffee, etc. There's nothing wrong with giving your body whatever it needs to function best.
Old 12-16-2008, 01:26 PM Ralph is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
The people taking adderall are possibly wiser and more motivated than you because they go out of their way to get the tools necessary for them to perform at their best. If you weren't so self-righteous you might do the same, but I suppose you're busy making sure you're handicapped in every way possible so your success is THAT much more valiant than everyone else's...

Like others have said, you're contradicting yourself if you do anything like take vitamins, drink coffee, etc. There's nothing wrong with giving your body whatever it needs to function best.
Emphasis mine.

Then why not allow steroids in athletic competitions?
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:32 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
#18  

Ralph
 
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
Emphasis mine.

Then why not allow steroids in athletic competitions?

When used correctly adderall's side effects aren't nearly as severe as those of steroids, not to mention they're temporary and there's only a chance they'll occur. Side effects of steroids are guaranteed, severe, permanent and irreversible.

You're just grasping for straws if you actually think this is a valid comparison
Old 12-16-2008, 03:46 PM Ralph is offline  
#19  

joemama
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Kids these days..
Back in my day we just loaded up on massive amounts of caffiene in the form of coffee, Mt Dew, Jolt and sometimes caffeine pills. Red Bull was around back then but the energy drink craze hadn't really taken off. When you get older you realize how stupid that was...just made you jittery and unfocused on anything. A much better plan is to start studying well in advance and minimize distractions. Of course I was just as dumb as any college student back then and common sense wasn't an option..
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:20 PM joemama is offline  
#20  

Intuitiv
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
The people taking adderall are possibly wiser and more motivated than you because they go out of their way to get the tools necessary for them to perform at their best. If you weren't so self-righteous you might do the same, but I suppose you're busy making sure you're handicapped in every way possible so your success is THAT much more valiant than everyone else's...

Like others have said, you're contradicting yourself if you do anything like take vitamins, drink coffee, etc. There's nothing wrong with giving your body whatever it needs to function best.

I'm no doctor.....but there is a difference between vitamins and pharmaceutical psychostimulants composed of mixed amphetamine salts.
Old 12-16-2008, 04:23 PM Intuitiv is offline  
#21  

Ralph
 
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Originally Posted by Intuitiv View Post
I'm no doctor.....but there is a difference between vitamins and pharmaceutical psychostimulants composed of mixed amphetamine salts.

...and your point is?

If you want to live some noble, self-righteous life without any sort of man made supplements you're welcome to go be a monk or something

Is the next point going to be that laptops in class are cheating because not everyone can afford something more than pencil and paper?
Old 12-16-2008, 04:29 PM Ralph is offline  
#22  

toga
 
Quote:
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Side effects of steroids are guaranteed, severe, permanent and irreversible.

You're just grasping for straws if you actually think this is a valid comparison

And you're an idiot for believing the above to be true.

Severe? In some cases. Permanent? Not likely. Irreversible...didn't we just cover this?

And definitely not fucking "guaranteed".
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:57 PM toga is offline  
#23  

Ralph
 
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And you're an idiot for believing the above to be true.

Severe? In some cases. Permanent? Not likely. Irreversible...didn't we just cover this?

And definitely not fucking "guaranteed".

Yeah, you compare performance enhancing steroids to medication thousands of doctors prescribe to CHILDREN every day and you call me an idiot?

Fucking to the max.
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:12 PM Ralph is offline  
#24  

bingstudent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo View Post
Yes, I have taken it quite a few times, and I can tell you that if I sat down and put my mind to it, I could achieve equal results while sober. My point in bringing up coffee is to draw a comparison between the effective use of the drug. Adderall helps you study by keeping you focused, but it won't magically open doors if you've never been able to crunch the numbers or comprehend the material, it simply makes you more efficient by focusing your thoughts and reducing distractions. In the same way, coffee won't lead you to any new insight, but it will increase your productivity by significantly extending your waking hours so that you can study and get more done. The end result is that both drugs simply increase your productivity, one by allowing you to get more work done in an allotted time, the other by allotting more time with which to get work done.

I pretty much agree with this comparison. Adderall is obviously more intense than coffee in its effects but the results and benefits are the same, just on different magnitudes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leo View Post
lol, there isn't anyone studying for finals that doesn't have access to coffee, it's available in just about any establishment where beverages are sold.

Not even student has the spare money to spend on coffee for cramming. The point isn't whether or not it's easily accessible though, it's that if a student has access and chooses to use it I don't think it makes them an unethical student just because not everyone else had access to the advantage.

By this measure SAT prep courses and well-funded high schools make the students that benefit from them unethical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leo View Post
That's like saying it's not unethical to use steroids because other people choose not to use them. If it were widely available and legal for all, you'd have a point, but if you're gaining a competitive academic advantage over your peers through the illegal use of drugs, it's effectively cheating and thus unethical. I'm speaking purely in principle, not in practice. The reality is, nobody gets drug tested before an exam, so the low risk makes the behavior more acceptable, but you can bet your ass that if universities drug tested before exams, the stigma associated with taking Adderall would be exactly the same as juicing up before a race.

Even taking legality into account I think your measurement lacks a firm brightline. Do I become a cheater and unethical student if I drive over the speed limit on my way home from class in order to get a few extra minutes of study time in?

No one is actually competing against each other until you're under test conditions. I think cheating on a test is ethically unacceptable, but I don't really see any justification for the actions someone takes to prepare for the test making them a cheater or unethical.
Old 12-16-2008, 06:12 PM bingstudent is offline  
#25  

bingstudent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
Yeah, you compare performance enhancing steroids to medication thousands of doctors prescribe to CHILDREN every day and you call me an idiot?

Fucking to the max.

You think you know what you're talking about but really don't.
Old 12-16-2008, 06:13 PM bingstudent is offline  
#26  

loner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
Yeah, you compare performance enhancing steroids to medication thousands of doctors prescribe to CHILDREN every day and you call me an idiot?

Fucking to the max.

Wasn't every one of your points about why using performance enhancing steroids is different from performance enhancing amphetamines just debunked? So you're grasping at this straw that thousands of doctors prescribe it to children every day?

I'll go ahead and debunk this one. Doctors prescribe steroids to children every day too.

He's arguing on the principle that if using steroids is unethical because it gives an unfair synthetic advantage, then using amphetamines is unethical for the same reason. That's irrefutable.
Old 12-16-2008, 06:21 PM loner is offline  
#27  

Ralph
 
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Originally Posted by loner View Post
Wasn't every one of your points about why using performance enhancing steroids is different from performance enhancing amphetamines just debunked? So you're grasping at this straw that thousands of doctors prescribe it to children every day?

I'll go ahead and debunk this one. Doctors prescribe steroids to children every day too.

He's arguing on the principle that if using steroids is unethical because it gives an unfair synthetic advantage, then using amphetamines is unethical for the same reason. That's irrefutable.

Yeah inhalers, nose sprays, and skin creams are really the same thing as injected anabolic steroids I'd love to hear of a doctor prescribing that to a child, maybe if they have some rare testosterone deficiency

As for adderall: First off, everyone can get it. If you want it legally just tell a psychiatrist you can't concentrate. BAM now you have it and you can't get arrested, was that so hard? Second, it's not nearly as dangerous as steroids - if you think it is you're just a fucking and there's no drug that's going to help you learn
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:39 PM Ralph is offline  
#28  

gogogadget
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First off, Adderall is not a substitute for intelligence. Any monkey can remember things and spit them out, but Adderall will not help an idiot do better later in life. After undergraduate, much graduate work is based on research, not daily quizzes on reading or such. Also, Adderall will not help in any calculatory subject, AKA Math, Chemistry, etc.

It is a pointless drug... and if you need to stay up all night studying for exams, you fucked up anyways....
Old 12-16-2008, 07:24 PM gogogadget is offline  
#29  

ry_goody
 
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I only made a quick comment before, so let me elaborate here on why amphetamines are retarded every way you look at it.

This is why using amphetamines is stupid every single way you look at it. Get yourself a top quality red panax ginseng root and chew on it. It is STRONGER than amphetamine. Along with being stronger, the effect is actually better, it is far more calm and controlled and focused. You can safely consume very large quantities of it, over a long period of time, it is relatively non-toxic and it is completely non-neuro-toxic. Studies actually show it helps reinforce brain growth. Now on the contrary, amphetamine is both toxic and NEUROTOXIC, why do people think just because a doctor gave it to them that they are taking something extra special devoid of all the pitfalls of amphetamine? Thats stupid, amphetamine is a poisin, your slowly destroying your cells by taking it, your slowly making yourself stupider by taking it. So what if you can plow through college at the top of your class high on amphetamines, you did more damage to your body and mind in that time than the binge drinking frat boy. It is utterly moronic to resort to amphetamine any way whatsoever.

Now back to the ginseng subject. I believe that people need a strong upper at times. You can almost intuitionally feel this need in your body to accomplish certain things. But as of late this intuition people have for needing a strong upper has been getting filled by a toxic chemical, amphetamine. When really, this niche should be getting filled by ginseng. Panax ginseng is one of the oldest and most widely used herbs in human history, our evolutionary development is as intertwined with gineoside chemicals (ginseng) as it is intertwined with Vitamin C. Every single one of you, your evolutionary path traversed through a ginseng culture, somewhere in your evolutionary past, your great great great great etc. grandfather was a regular ginseng user. I believe when a person feels the deep intuition, the deep need for an incredibly strong upper, an external form of adrenaline, this is actually a deep rooted craving for ginseng. There body is intuitionally remembering back in it's line of evolutionary development to a point in history where it had a continuous supply of an incredibly strong, safe, and necessary upper, that not only fuelled the construction of there society, but was one of the most cherished and respected plants in the culture. I am being 100% serious there in every way, I am not exagerating that to get a point across. If you get a top quality red panax ginseng root, the effect does not feel new, the effect feels incredibly normal, incredibly familiar. This is because it is familiar to your body. The cells that compose your body had a bout with ginseng at one point in their developmental past.

People who use amphetamines, this is nothing but an accident because you failed to try out all the alternatives in full. Now when I type this, I know someone is probably thinking "I've had ginseng", I am talking about something more specific here. Whole root Red Panax Ginseng is what I am talking about, the effect is different than the generic 'ginseng' pills you buy in a grocery store. There are a handful of different plants that get sold under the name 'ginseng', pretty much all of them being shitty extracts that don't contain the good portions of the real panax root. In short, you will not find real ginseng in a grocery store, I have never seen it myself, if it comes in pressed pill form or extract form it is not going to have it's full effect. You must get the whole root, the actual root panax ginseng root, only in the whole root form does it pertain it's full effect. Now theres lots of ways to consume it, but for the quickest, just chew on it. I think you will very quickly agree with me that not only is it every bit as strong as amphetamine. But the effect is actually better, calmer, more comfortable, more in control, and it actually feels healthy. You don't crash on it, you get a ton of energy, then the energy wears off and you feel better off than you did before, it is highly medicinal. Because of all that, you can actually consume much more of it than you could amphetamine, meaning it is stronger.

Now with all that said. I think brain boosting drugs are a NECESSITY in many ways and all people should use them. I believe there is actually an evolutionary intuition in everyones body telling them they need something of the nature. But people should use the REAL brain boosting drugs not synethic, toxic, alternatives that only exist to make a corporation a profit. Honestly any doctor that prescribes amphetamine without mentioning the word ginseng once is a moron who doesn't deserve his license, he failed at medicine, you cannot ignore one of the most used, most cherished, most documented herbs in human history then prescribe a toxic synthetic chemical in its place and call yourself a doctor. You call that a scam.
Old 12-16-2008, 07:30 PM ry_goody is offline  
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