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The Unflushable Turd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post

I'm pretty sure every fucking human would get the message if a UFO landed on Flatbush Avenue.


he'd get a ticket real quick, no parking!
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Old 12-27-2008, 08:50 AM The Unflushable Turd is offline  
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Vendetta
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ry, if you cannot explain away the Naztec lines, then you must accept the very high probability that the crop circles were created by man. Otherwise you're a hypocrite

By your arguments, what you call cooperation is no different than structure and collectivization.

ANSWER ME THIS: What basis, why in the fucking WORLD, would a spaceship of advanced beings zipping around in space, be more likely to be a collection of intersteller hippies rather than an advanced civilization?

Seriously, are you daft? I pick on you a lot but jesus christ. Hippie aliens? What sense is that? Why would an advanced lifeform making contact with Earth, with shattering potential implications, send a team of hippies instead of their best representatives?

I'm pretty sure the advanced life forms arent using LSD like you want them too. It's not a game, even if it isnt a hoax. Christ almightly.

and at you once again trying to insult academia and my career as a professor. Youre pathetic
Old 12-27-2008, 09:46 AM Vendetta is offline  
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Many anthropologist speculate that the Nazca lines were made by the Nazca people and that they were able to observe them via extremely primitive hot air balloons. Von Danikken makes has some interesting explanations, but if you dig deeper into them they come across as too farfetched.

Secondly, if you actually follow the evolution of crop circles from the mid '70s up until present day, you'd definitely be able to notice a gradual evolution in them. They first started out as literally crop circles, with no patterns at all. They eventually became more and more complex and artistic. Now the question begs to be asked, was it humans who made these and got better at it through time and experience, or did ETs experience a boom in the technology responsible for making these?
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:44 AM Redrum is offline  
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ANSWER ME THIS: What basis, why in the fucking WORLD, would a spaceship of advanced beings zipping around in space, be more likely to be a collection of intersteller hippies rather than an advanced civilization?

Why do a bunch of MIT Students working extremely advanced research projects take time to joke around and prank and play some games?

I'd think just like us, a species that advanced would either be emotionless or really understand emotion at its core and hell, everyone does anything a lot better when they're happy or find it funny or humorous.

It wouldn't take too long observing that we as a species tend to deal with complex issues a hell of a lot easier when happy or when there is a humorous situation surrounding it.

I think that Advanced species would be more willing to work with our emotions as it is the catalyst that would allow them to control the situation in their favour.

hence the hippy alien making crop circles instead of making alien language out of fire in the sky above a major metropolitan city

But I still think ry_goody is craZY and so is this crop circle shit
Old 12-27-2008, 11:52 AM ElectribeCyanide is offline  
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Vendetta
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Hippies in a joyride flying saucer visit earth and want to have some chuckles? Possibly. Plausibly?

I understand the easter-egg phenomenon, when I'm doing my own analysis work if I have the opportunity to throw a few jokes into my reports, I'd do it--but I understand that my work is for a specific audience that would get the joke. I would not think of building in practical jokes or comedy to a less-advanced species that has no proof of my existence. Not only would they not get the joke, they'd probably call me Loki.

Let's posit a hypothetical situation: a space-faring civilization observing Earth is no different than an advanced culture making first contact with a completely isolated, unknown tribe in the Amazon. It's an advanced people making contact with a lesser advanced people. For the basis of this hypothetical situation let's assume the lesser culture is rational, logical, and would not react completely in fear and run away (on average), and possesses high intellectual capacity (meaning open to new ideas).

What makes more sense--the more advanced culture on Earth making jokes and being humorous, sending drug using up hippies, or acting straightforward, sending musicians, scientists, artists, and other professionals (we can throw in Robin Williams for the comedy side once it's understood by the lesser culture that we arent trying to kill them)?

Advanced peoples (in your case MIT students) crack jokes and occasionally show tricks, but advanced people also know when to act appropriately. To me, thats just common sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectribeCyanide View Post
ANSWER ME THIS: What basis, why in the fucking WORLD, would a spaceship of advanced beings zipping around in space, be more likely to be a collection of intersteller hippies rather than an advanced civilization?

Why do a bunch of MIT Students working extremely advanced research projects take time to joke around and prank and play some games?

I'd think just like us, a species that advanced would either be emotionless or really understand emotion at its core and hell, everyone does anything a lot better when they're happy or find it funny or humorous.

It wouldn't take too long observing that we as a species tend to deal with complex issues a hell of a lot easier when happy or when there is a humorous situation surrounding it.

I think that Advanced species would be more willing to work with our emotions as it is the catalyst that would allow them to control the situation in their favour.

hence the hippy alien making crop circles instead of making alien language out of fire in the sky above a major metropolitan city

But I still think ry_goody is craZY and so is this crop circle shit

Last edited by Vendetta; 12-27-2008 at 01:05 PM..
Old 12-27-2008, 12:56 PM Vendetta is offline  
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This thread makes me want to re-read Carl Sagan. Himself a dope-smoking hippie, he came up with a scheme for classifying ET civilizations.

Vendetta's remarks cohere with Sagan's schema, so far as I can tell.

Ry's, um, don't. Not every stoner who can build a sentence is a genius.
Old 12-27-2008, 01:20 PM Stanch is offline  
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ElectribeCyanide
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Hippies in a joyride flying saucer visit earth and want to have some chuckles? Possibly. Plausibly?

I understand the easter-egg phenomenon, when I'm doing my own analysis work if I have the opportunity to throw a few jokes into my reports, I'd do it--but I understand that my work is for a specific audience that would get the joke. I would not think of building in practical jokes or comedy to a less-advanced species that has no proof of my existence. Not only would they not get the joke, they'd probably call me Loki.

Let's posit a hypothetical situation: a space-faring civilization observing Earth is no different than an advanced culture making first contact with a completely isolated, unknown tribe in the Amazon. It's an advanced people making contact with a lesser advanced people. For the basis of this hypothetical situation let's assume the lesser culture is rational, logical, and would not react completely in fear and run away (on average), and possesses high intellectual capacity (meaning open to new ideas).

What makes more sense--the more advanced culture on Earth making jokes and being humorous, sending drug using up hippies, or acting straightforward, sending musicians, scientists, artists, and other professionals (we can throw in Robin Williams for the comedy side once it's understood by the lesser culture that we arent trying to kill them)?

Advanced peoples (in your case MIT students) crack jokes and occasionally show tricks, but advanced people also know when to act appropriately. To me, thats just common sense.


I believe that if it was the case, yours would be the simplest most rational explanation for the events. I do believe you are right

But, the odds of this whole scheme or any of the perceived communication methods turning out to happen or be used is so slim that we can actually say well, common sense dictates that it's not plausible for situation B to happen over a, but common sense doesn't always turn out to be the right answer in the end. Life's surprising, so who knows, there might be a race of intelligent comedians who like to burn images and ASCII into Cornfields.

But yea, enough of this metaphorical , Okkam's (Sp) razor favours Vendetta and so does rational intelligent thought.
Old 12-27-2008, 01:31 PM ElectribeCyanide is offline  
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Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
yes. Did you read my post through? I responded to that.

"Someone might wonder, why the hell would a foreign species communicate with us through crop circles and not those fancy SETI satellites we have all set up? I think the answer is obvious, why would an advanced species communicate to humans through human government? By putting them in fields, everyone gets the message, all of humanity gets to see it equally. Plus, I believe an advanced species would be playful, they would be keen on jokes and humor. If they were going to communicate with another species, it would be in an odd and somewhat mischievous manner, such as zapping artwork into crops."

My point was how the fuck would aliens know English
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:35 PM Mooninites is offline  
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ry, if you cannot explain away the Naztec lines, then you must accept the very high probability that the crop circles were created by man. Otherwise you're a hypocrite

By your arguments, what you call cooperation is no different than structure and collectivization.

ANSWER ME THIS: What basis, why in the fucking WORLD, would a spaceship of advanced beings zipping around in space, be more likely to be a collection of intersteller hippies rather than an advanced civilization?

Seriously, are you daft? I pick on you a lot but jesus christ. Hippie aliens? What sense is that? Why would an advanced lifeform making contact with Earth, with shattering potential implications, send a team of hippies instead of their best representatives?

I'm pretty sure the advanced life forms arent using LSD like you want them too. It's not a game, even if it isnt a hoax. Christ almightly.

and at you once again trying to insult academia and my career as a professor. Youre pathetic

I don't see how the issue of the naztec lines would prove or disprove the crop circle phenomena. The naztec lines seem like they'd be easier to be man-made than the crop circles. From reading about it, the naztec lines are caused by the red stones being removed exposing the whiter soil underneath. Some pharaoh or whoever could've organized 1000 peasants to walk around following a cartographer while removing the red stones behind him. The naztec lines could of been easily been human made. Also concerning the human nature of some of the forms like the monkey on here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazca_lines they probably were man-made.

But that has nothing to do with crop circles. The crop circles are harder to chalk up to pure man-made phenomena given all that we know.

And your construing my point entirely. An alien civilization is not our civilization. Thats the first thing you have to understand, the alien civilization is not our civilization. They would have developed by a completely different set of mechanics, from a completely different set of origins. There would not be a 'straight' culture and a 'hippie' culture'. There would not be hippie communes, there would not be universities. We have absolutely no idea what kind of cultures they have, what kind of counter cultures they have, if they have any at all, they might actually be truly cooperative and only have ONE culture, I would suspect this probably the case, but thats still my supposition.

The only thing we can know FOR SURE is the qualities of human existence we ourselves most cherish, we seek out. The human spirit, when in a free and uninhibited state of being, it expresses deep desire to find that which is fun, humorous, beautiful and mysterious. Thus it only makes sense that those are the qualities evolution will maximize in us. And by that, one would have to assume a more advanced species would be quite the mischevious odd little artistic types.

Now this is not HIPPIE ALIENS Ok what this is. The hippies were the one example of a group of people in our recent history which attempted to maximize these naturally existing inclinations of human kind. The hippies exemplified a lifestyle containing an attempt at bringing a more fun, humorous, beautiful and mysterious angle to living. This is the only reason I note the aliens as probably being more akin to hippies than a White-Collar worker. Not because of anything else the hippies did. But simply because they presented the fact that when a species is not held down by fear of getting a bad grade, by fear of not getting paid, they will then maximize the qualities of human existence they cherish most.

By that, it's not that they chose to send the free-thinkers of their society. I am saying ALL OF THEM are free-thinkers. If society where to advance to a point where it was completely sustainable, harmonized and automated by advanced technology. You would not have white-collar workers. You would not have back-breaking labor. It would be a technological Utopia, it would produce beings of a very playful and mischevious manner because when the spirit is free to roam thats what it wants to do.

These habits of rigid formality, hiearchal structure etc. etc that are exemplified in current straight culture. These only exist to birth a new state of being that will no longer need them. Our species will have to shed the skin of all that is negative, of all that isn't exemplifying the pure state of the human soul in order for it to move into higher realms.

Think about it from this angle too. Stick a white-collar social worker. Or, stick yourself in a pitch black sensory deprivation tank for 2 hours. Have you ever done this? Have you ever sat in sensory deprivation until you get full open eyed visuals and auditory hallucinations? Thats what space travel will be like. Your going to be sitting in the vaccum of space for WAY longer than just 2 hours. Your going to be in it for years. Space travel will be like an extremely long session in a sensory deprivation tank. Any being that partakes in space travel is going to be tripping face like face has never before been tripped just by simple fact there going to be sitting in sensory deprivation for MONTHS. If you stuck a white-collar worker or a University student into a space craft and sent them across the Galaxy, they would most likely kill themselves within the first 2 weeks due to being unable to handle all the visual and auditory hallucinations. The future space explorers will have, they MUST have, extensive practice and discipline in meditation and other yogic practices simply to maintain sanity on the journey. This is another reason why I note any being from space will be much more hippie like. The hippies were the only group of people in current American history that collectively meditated and could collectively handle the state of being in full visual and auditory hallucination. The most exercised activity on an interstellar space flight will more than likely be meditation, and other acts of meditational aid. Such as chanting, playing instruments or drawing. They are NOT gonna be doing paper-work, crunching numbers and talking socrates on an intersteller space flight. The activities on the inside of a space ship would probably most resemble a monastery with monks. Or one of the many hippie communes where they also lived in a similiar fashion to the monks. I mean this very very literally, meditating and learning how to operate in full visual and auditory hallucination is learning, is preparing oneself, for space travel. The habits of the hippies and monks, those are the habits one needs in order to retain sanity in space travel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
What makes more sense--the more advanced culture on Earth making jokes and being humorous, sending drug using up hippies, or acting straightforward, sending musicians, scientists, artists, and other professionals (we can throw in Robin Williams for the comedy side once it's understood by the lesser culture that we arent trying to kill them)?

The hippies ARE the artists and musicians. Psychedellics are pretty much synonymous with better art and better music.

I don't understand how you have developed this archetypal hippie that sits in the field with a beard smoking weed doing nothing. The hippies ARE the artists. They ARE the musicians. Even today, among my personal friends, the ones who smoke weed, visit the psychedellics are far better artists and musicians. And not just in 'closed-circuit hippie loops', but in actual reality. My artist friends who smoke weed and do the psychedelics are the only friends I have that are making money with their art.

Also your notion you present of America going to the Amazon being akin to Aliens coming to the Earth. You don't have to fabricate stories and fantasies in your mind for this. Stop fabricating stories in your mind. We actually DID have Americans go down and visit and explore the amazonian tribes and other third world countries in the last generation. AND THEY WERE THE HIPPIES THAT DID IT. The white-collar workers and scientists were staying at home in the states doing there white-collar work. The explorers of the last generations, the explorers from our culture after the year 1960 were hippies. Both in exploring the earth and in exploring uncharted mental territory. The hippies were the explorers.

But still, as I said before, that is ASSUMING, and it is a big assumption, that the alien culture would be ANYTHING like ours, and that they would even have 'straight' and 'hippie-esque' sides. Personally I believe a species must develop one culture before they can travel space.
Old 12-28-2008, 01:07 AM ry_goody is offline  
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My point was how the fuck would aliens know English

Why wouldn't they?

We can decipher hieroglyphics and other archaic languages. I imagine with all the media streams spewing off our planet it wouldn't take an advanced race any time at all to decode all of our languages.
Old 12-28-2008, 01:08 AM ry_goody is offline  
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Okay, well that settles it aliens experienced a crop circle technological revolution right around the same time the internet was getting off the ground on the Earth.

/thread
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:13 AM Redrum is offline  
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Okay, well that settles it aliens experienced a crop circle technological revolution right around the same time the internet was getting off the ground on the Earth.

/thread

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Old 12-28-2008, 01:33 AM ry_goody is offline  
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UPDATE!!

I was meditating and I found the answer as to why it is the aliens contact us this way.

Ok first you gotta understand that the alien does not actually look like this


The alien actually looks way weirder than that. The alien actually operates on a different dimension, a different plane, a whole different concept of light and color so foreign to us that we quite literally could not comprehend what it looks like. If they made a perfect image of themselves it simply would not register to us, it cannot register to us. Everything about them is too foreign for us to even comprehend. We could have already seen the aliens dozens of times in our life, but the energy they are composed of is SO foreign to our perception and consciousness that it doesn't register.

So what they then do is psychically connect to the collective unconscious of humanity and pick out imagery that they know will register to us. That they know human kind will be able to collectively comprehend and then they use that to communicate the message. Thats why they picked a stereotypical alien face. They don't look like that, they might not even be humanoid, they picked that simply so that it would register to us that 'this is from alien intelligence'. Then the reason they used the CD is, of any item containing information right now, it is CD's we have the most of. If a species were to analyze us to see what we used to communicate with, it would be CD's which would VASTLY outnumber any other medium which can contain a message. So they figured they would burn us a CD... into the wheat field.

This is also why they don't just come here, they can't. They are interdimensional beings, there dimension is composed of a completely different form of energy we cannot even comprehend, there energy operates on a completely different form of physics than our own. They have invented some interdimensional probe that can temporarily pop over here and manipulate some basic physical law in our energy. The law they have chosen to manipulate over here is the energy which composes the wheat stocks. Why? 1) By putting the image in a wheat field they know a human will come across it. The wheat field is the only thing in nature they know with 100% assurance that a human will at some point come across it. 2) Why not etch the pattern into the dirt or concrete or something? Because it would take more energy to do that. It takes them an INCREDIBLE amount of energy to send their probe over here and manipulate some of our physical laws. Etching something into pavement or displacing packed down soil would take more energy than simply popping the stem of an extremely frail plant. Of any surface on our earth which is flat and open, the wheat fields would take the least amount of energy to etch a pattern into. Sand perhaps would take an equal amount of energy, but sand would quickly be blown away. By using the wheat fields and laying down and intertwining the wheat stocks, they can be sure that the pattern will be permanent until a human finds it. The wheat field is the ONLY thing that will hold a permanent pattern until a human comes across it. 3) Why don't they do it in the city? TOO MUCH INTERFERENCE. There technology is incredibly sensitive to our energy, there must be minimal humans around, there must be minimal amounts of our technology around if there interdimensional probe is to remain functional over here.

Then the reason that they simply don't write down the meaning of the geometric patterns is because the real meaning to the patterns, like they themselves, is so foreign to our perception and comprehension that they quite literally cannot put it into English. We will have to develop a new language to even be able to accurately discuss the meaning of the geometric formations. The geometric formations they put down, that is itself the best language they could possibly use to communicate what they are trying to communicate.
Old 12-28-2008, 09:29 AM ry_goody is offline  
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Vendetta
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wow
By the way, you are a science fiction writer, not a philosopher-scientist.
Old 12-28-2008, 09:50 AM Vendetta is offline  
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hoooly shit, RY_goody's on or off something important!

Ry, please, even though its impossible for you to not blur fiction within reality, make sure that's its just not pure fiction.

Fuck sakes!
Old 12-28-2008, 10:10 AM ElectribeCyanide is offline  
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