General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Louche
 
UPS Bailout - I'd like to hit this guy with a shovel

The video and the FedEx funded website:
http://www.brownbailout.com/

I'm a SE for UPS and know that while we've tightened our belts, we've been doing really well considering. My division has seen revenue and profit growths this year despite the economy. UPS as a whole has not had to have layoffs or diminish wages (we ARE on a wage freeze for the time being though).

But now I've been hearing about this "bailout" . I know it might seem brutal given FedEx's current economic standpoint -- They were forced to take a company-wide 5% wage decrease last year and are losing a lot of money... but UPS has been pushing for this bill (re: bailout) for a long time.

Currently FedEx drivers are classified under different laws than UPS drivers due to the huge amount of money they spent on marketing their image as an overnight express carrier, when in fact UPS provides the exact same services as FedEx, but is labeled as a ground shipper by public image. Both companies have a huge arsenal of aircraft and trucks alike which carry their packages. In the end, every single freaking package is on a truck driven by a person. For UPS it's the teamsters. For FedEx, it's "independent contractors" that aren't allowed to work for any other shipping service and are heavily restricted. FedEx doesn't have to pay them benefits like social security matching, they can't unionize, among a long list of other crap they get away with by misclassifying and mistreating their drivers. It's even started going to court as you can see from websites like this http://www.fedexdriverslawsuit.com/

All in all, I think it's ridiculous how this company tries to fight it's battles with smear campaigns and is attempting to lead the public into thinking UPS is trying to get government money by using the term "bailout" for the bill.
Old 06-21-2009, 04:56 AM Louche is offline  
Reply With Quote
#1  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

:ninja:
My cooter sweats, and reeks like rotting sea vermon.
 
:ninja:'s Avatar
 
Fuck you and your teamsters.

Workers' unions are fucking jokes now.
__________________
Use Linux and BSD
Old 06-21-2009, 10:35 AM :ninja: is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2  

Frenetic
 
Frenetic's Avatar
 
Wait, so you ARE requesting a bailout from congress? If you guys are tightening your belts and seeing better profit margins, why are you pursuing a bailout? Is having union truck drivers that damaging for you guys?
Old 06-21-2009, 11:27 AM Frenetic is offline  
Reply With Quote
#3  

Zangmonkey
3y3 4m t3h Gr4et gr4nD m0th4rfUxing mor4n! W4t<h //\y b33f kur+4nz F|4p!!# 4y4m 1e37!
 
Zangmonkey's Avatar
 
:sigh:
Unions serve a good purpose sometimes: they need to negotiate contracts as a whole on behalf of those they represent.
However, union leadership does their members a disservice by being so spineless.
It is sometimes in the best interest to negotiate wage decreases to sustain employment. They will never do this in a system which hands out money willy-nilly and may or may not give union leaders control of the companies themselves.

On a related note: How great is it that UAW would not negotiate salaries or retirements benefits; then they were given control of GM and the first thing they did was cut benefits?
__________________
09 F9
Old 06-21-2009, 11:31 AM Zangmonkey is offline  
Reply With Quote
#4  

Frenetic
 
Frenetic's Avatar
 
Also, is having 400 more planes than you guys what pushed Fed Ex into RLA regulations? I'd honestly like to know because I'm iffy on this. Because it seems that their focus is parcel delivery flown in by planes then handed off to trucks, while UPS is a company that got planes because it had to, and is in 9th place for civil fleet size and Fed Ex is 1st place.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the rhetoric of both sides here. UPS is an older company with union rules that bog it down and Fed Ex is a younger company that used independent contractors for better long term profit margins. You showed in that last link the problems that can cause. However, I do feel a bit biased here, because Fed Ex has treated me and my mail far better than UPS ever has. They are faster, more efficient, and their customer service has always been stellar to me. I haven't used UPS on purpose for two years now, and I have no intention on going back to them.

Let me ask you, if UPS were simply allowed to operate on the same rules as Fed Ex so you could compete more equally (I mean you'd need more planes, sure), would you be okay with that?
Old 06-21-2009, 11:57 AM Frenetic is offline  
Reply With Quote
#5  

Jack Fickleson
 
Jack Fickleson's Avatar
 
Unions no longer serve the purpose they one did.

However, I'd rather see UPS and Fedex survive, and possibly grow. The US Postal Service is a joke and needs the competition.

"Delivery confirmation"... yes, that's a joke. You pay EXTRA for a barcode sticker which is scanned at acceptance and "delivery". But it doesn't give any information as to WHERE it went, merely that the driver scanned it as "delivered". Went to the wrong house? Wrong town? Up yours!

"Insurance"... another worthless service. You must have some solid proof of the item's value, and even then, they must agree with it. An ebay sale price isn't sufficient. Things such as antique valuables and artwork can NOT be insured as they only cover "cost of materials". In other words, if they ruin the Mona Lisa, they're only bound to pay for the canvas and paints. They are set up to legaly avoid paying.

Meanwhile, I can ship something by Fedex or UPS, receive full, detailed tracking at every step, final delivery address, and proper insurance at roughly the same price. I've also noticed online stores offer Fedex and UPS as a cheaper option than USPS, no doubt to discourage customers from buying an inferior service.
__________________
I used to be known on these forums as ForeverLurk-MK2. However, I abandoned my racial views long ago and am no longer a Neo-Nazi.
Old 06-21-2009, 12:18 PM Jack Fickleson is offline  
Reply With Quote
#6  

Patriotic Eagle
 
Patriotic Eagle's Avatar
 
Fedex is a piece of shit company and the contrast between how it treats its workers and how UPS treats theirs shows why unions are important.
Old 06-21-2009, 02:28 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
#7  

Patriotic Eagle
 
Patriotic Eagle's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenetic View Post
Wait, so you ARE requesting a bailout from congress? If you guys are tightening your belts and seeing better profit margins, why are you pursuing a bailout? Is having union truck drivers that damaging for you guys?

UPS is not getting a bailout. What Fedex is claiming is a bailout is legislation that would make it easier for their workers to unionize. UPS is getting no federal money and fedex is lying through their teeth.
Old 06-21-2009, 02:31 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
#8  

Patriotic Eagle
 
Patriotic Eagle's Avatar
 
Have people opposed to unions ever questioned why the shift from unionized manufacturing jobs to non unionized service jobs has resulted in a stagnation or drop in the standard of living for many working class Americans? Must be because unions are evil.
Old 06-21-2009, 02:40 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
#9  

Tom Kazansky
911 Was an Inside Job. Bush is traitor like Prescott Bush
 
Tom Kazansky's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
On a related note: How great is it that UAW would not negotiate salaries or retirements benefits; then they were given control of GM and the first thing they did was cut benefits?



Link to the details of the cut? I know they cut some, but I didn't see which were cut (beyond the "viagra benefit", I'm not joking).

I did find that funny too.
__________________
ERTW - Engineers Rule The World
Old 06-21-2009, 02:42 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
Reply With Quote
#10  

Tom Kazansky
911 Was an Inside Job. Bush is traitor like Prescott Bush
 
Tom Kazansky's Avatar
 
I remember some of the teamsters at work (Bruce Nuclear Generating Station in Ontario) refused a package we needed to get some work done because FedEx is non-union. People subsequently wonder why this industry is often over-budget.
__________________
ERTW - Engineers Rule The World
Old 06-21-2009, 02:43 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
Reply With Quote
#11  

Tom Kazansky
911 Was an Inside Job. Bush is traitor like Prescott Bush
 
Tom Kazansky's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
Have people opposed to unions ever questioned why the shift from unionized manufacturing jobs to non unionized service jobs has resulted in a stagnation or drop in the standard of living for many working class Americans? Must be because unions are evil.

There's nothing wrong with unions, but the problem with unions today is they have become as corrupt as the corporations they fought against at the beginning of the labour movement, when workers abroad were genuinely taken advantage of. If unions would go back to their roots, I bet things would be better. Unions in the modern world protect the stupid and bog down industry to the point where it negatively affects the economy for everyone, and we eventually have to pay for it (see: auto industry). Where I was working, union members would fuck the dog during the week just so they could work double time on the weekends. There's a lot of stories about older union members bullying younger union members into slowing down so they wont have to work as hard. If this weren't the case, I would have no issue with unions at all. This is a problem that requires addressing.
__________________
ERTW - Engineers Rule The World
Old 06-21-2009, 02:48 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
Reply With Quote
#12  

Frenetic
 
Frenetic's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
UPS is not getting a bailout. What Fedex is claiming is a bailout is legislation that would make it easier for their workers to unionize. UPS is getting no federal money and fedex is lying through their teeth.
Bailouts don't require money. They just require government intervention.
Old 06-21-2009, 03:01 PM Frenetic is offline  
Reply With Quote
#13  

Louche
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenetic View Post
Wait, so you ARE requesting a bailout from congress? If you guys are tightening your belts and seeing better profit margins, why are you pursuing a bailout? Is having union truck drivers that damaging for you guys?

This is the whole point of my post. UPS is NOT looking for government money. FedEx is using the word "bailout" to refer to a bill that we are lobbying for that would require them to perform under the same laws that UPS has to abide by -- we have the teamsters and don't see why fedex should be immune from the same thing
Old 06-21-2009, 03:03 PM Louche is offline  
Reply With Quote
#14  

Louche
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenetic View Post
Let me ask you, if UPS were simply allowed to operate on the same rules as Fed Ex so you could compete more equally (I mean you'd need more planes, sure), would you be okay with that?

Yes, absolutely. Doesn't seem fair we have to deal with unions when our direct competition doesn't, ya know?
Old 06-21-2009, 03:06 PM Louche is offline  
Reply With Quote
#15  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:32 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.