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Vote McCain!
Retardism
 
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Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post

apparently YOU dont you fucktard
Old 01-04-2010, 09:21 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
when you create a monetary incentive for businesses that send manufacturing jobs overseas through your tax policies, then yes, tax cuts ARE an incentive for businesses to leave.

The fact that China's labour was 1/10th the cost of ours made it the natural place to send those jobs (aside from mexico, thailand, and a whole host of other countries)

It wouldn't be a problem if we replaced the jobs with others which were more effectively done here.
Not to mention we otherwise benefit from the lower prices.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:22 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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It wouldn't be a problem if we replaced the jobs with others which were more effectively done here.

such as?..... i agree though

i would suggest clean energy/solar manufacturing

I dont think that will happen anytime soon though

Quote:
Not to mention we otherwise benefit from the lower prices.
how so? it allows me to buy a t-shirt from wal-mart for $2.95.... and?

meanwhile the 500 people at the plant in Townsville, Ohio that used to manufacture my t-shirts are fucked out of a job as their plant gets shut down and their jobs get shipped to thailand. on top of that, the money the company makes from the cheap labor in thailand doesnt get taxed in the US, guess where it gets taxed?  FUCKING THAILAND! 
Old 01-05-2010, 12:57 AM Vote McCain! is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
apparently YOU dont you fucktard


Reading is fundamental


"As inflation came down and as more and more of the tax cuts from the 1981 Act went into effect, the economic began a strong and sustained pattern of growth. Though the painful medicine of disinflation slowed and initially hid the process, the beneficial effects of marginal rate cuts and reductions in the disincentives to invest took hold as promised."



and other stuff
"During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988). ..."
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:46 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
911 Was an Inside Job. Bush is traitor like Prescott Bush
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
when you create a monetary incentive for businesses that send manufacturing jobs overseas through your tax policies, then yes, tax cuts ARE an incentive for businesses to leave.

The fact that China's labour was 1/10th the cost of ours made it the natural place to send those jobs (aside from mexico, thailand, and a whole host of other countries)

Actually the tax policies mean fuck all, because it's impossible for American manufacturers to compete with that labour cost regardless, unless you basically bankrupt the country attempting to keep those jobs domestic, or convince the populace that paying $2000 for a DVD player is somehow a better idea than paying $100 for the one made in China that does the same thing, quality aside. The only real way American companies are going to compete is via automation, and for that, I don't see how reduced taxes are a bad thing. If you can show me how, I'd like to see it.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:28 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
such as?..... i agree though

i would suggest clean energy/solar manufacturing

Because China can't manufacture those at a lower cost?

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Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
meanwhile the 500 people at the plant in Townsville, Ohio that used to manufacture my t-shirts are fucked out of a job as their plant gets shut down and their jobs get shipped to thailand. on top of that, the money the company makes from the cheap labor in thailand doesnt get taxed in the US, guess where it gets taxed?  FUCKING THAILAND! 

Do you honestly keep that at the forefront and decide to buy the $20 t-shirt instead just because it's made in Ohio? You'd go poor pretty damn fast. There are some things I look for domestic manufacture or foreign manufacture from a location that doesn't have shitty QA (ie Japan, UK, United States, etc), but for t-shirts and socks and expendable items, I really don't care.

As for the taxes, all sales taxes would remain domestic, and I'm not sure what the corporate tax structure is on profits for a company headquartered in the US. Either way, I don't think you necessarily lose on the tax front.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:32 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
Reading is fundamental


"As inflation came down and as more and more of the tax cuts from the 1981 Act went into effect, the economic began a strong and sustained pattern of growth. Though the painful medicine of disinflation slowed and initially hid the process, the beneficial effects of marginal rate cuts and reductions in the disincentives to invest took hold as promised."



and other stuff
"During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988). ..."

Yeah but Reagan is a Republican so your point is moot.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:33 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Neither of which have normalized rates of growth (nor does the US treasury website have any rates there) which would show that Krugman is correct.
Old 01-07-2010, 02:47 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
The United States already did this, and won.
The Tobacco companies dished out billions to the states to cover the health-care expenses of the smokers.
Almost no state actually used the money for that purpose.

Great 'tar mate.
Old 01-07-2010, 02:48 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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It's not necessarily about having to spend MORE, it's about having to spend to keep up. Soviet military expendatures were a documented cause of economic stagnation, even during the Reagan years. Anything one side did that set the other side back (caused a gap) would force the other side to respond. Increased American military expenditures, including SDI, prevented the Soviets from scaling back money that could have been spent elsewhere.

Further, you're saying the spending per GDP never significantly increased. It was still, at times, 25% of GNP in the Soviet Union. When you're spending that much, it's not sustainable. US innovations like SDI prevented them from significantly reducing that figure. SDI was not the only thing, but to suggest the threat of a superweapon did not spurn any concern or respond from the Soviets would not be accurate. It doesn't follow the Cold War pattern.
The only estimates which go as high as 25% include lots of "hidden costs" and is at the highest end of CIA estimates. You could also get the US defense budget much higher using these same methods. If you use more reasonable estimates like Swedens SIPRI then it was more like 12% by 1988. During the 70's it was around 10% (and probably around that for the 60's as well) so it wasn't a huge increase, certainly not something that would lead to economic collapse. Even if the 25% number were true it would only matter relative to it's increase from previous decades.

Again if you look at the actual reasons for the collapse it was mainly due to the dissolvement of party control as more and more capitalist style economic reforms were introduced and regional entities gained more and more independence and political power and the willingness to use the military to "assert control" no longer remained.
Old 01-07-2010, 04:13 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Tax cuts are not an incentive for business to leave.

nor are they an incentive for business to stay. no one ever closed a profitable business because taxes went up. no one ever saved a failing business because taxes went down.

taxes are on profit. giving up all profit instead of a percentage of profit because of a tax increase is stupid.

taxes are on profit. taxes being reduced has zero effect on a business that doesn't make a profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
Reading is fundamental


"As inflation came down and as more and more of the tax cuts from the 1981 Act went into effect, the economic began a strong and sustained pattern of growth. Though the painful medicine of disinflation slowed and initially hid the process, the beneficial effects of marginal rate cuts and reductions in the disincentives to invest took hold as promised."



and other stuff
"During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988). ..."

intelligence is more fundamental. too bad you lack it.

if you wanna give presidents credit (which is stupid, but hey lets go along with it...), republicans have presided over 6 of the 9 recessions we've had since WW2.

inflation rates going down had nothing to do with reagan. the federal reserve lowered inflation rates, it wasn't until the mid 70s that they gained the power to effectively do it.

the longest periods without recession that we've had post WW2 were under kennedy/johnson and clinton.

Last edited by Xayd; 01-07-2010 at 10:45 PM..
Old 01-07-2010, 10:19 PM Xayd is offline  
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nor are they an incentive for business to stay. no one ever closed a profitable business because taxes went up. no one ever saved a failing business because taxes went down.

taxes are on profit. giving up all profit instead of a percentage of profit because of a tax increase is stupid.

taxes are on profit. taxes being reduced has zero effect on a business that loses money.

they wouldn't close the business, they would move it to somewhere more profitable.
Old 01-07-2010, 10:29 PM Polyhedric Mu is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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Because China can't manufacture those at a lower cost?

not when the technology is still semi-experimental, and also alot of system are too expensive for regular joes. the first nation to dominate in that area will be the next major world power, and yeah, it will probably be china that does it. things seem to get done quicker in totalitarian governments.

Quote:
Do you honestly keep that at the forefront and decide to buy the $20 t-shirt instead just because it's made in Ohio? You'd go poor pretty damn fast. There are some things I look for domestic manufacture or foreign manufacture from a location that doesn't have shitty QA (ie Japan, UK, United States, etc), but for t-shirts and socks and expendable items, I really don't care.
no i dont keep it at the forefront of my mind when im buying things. but you could replace the word t-shirt with stereo and my point is still valid.
Old 01-07-2010, 10:50 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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lol who got me this avatar
Old 01-12-2010, 02:16 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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how far up your ass did you have to reach to nab those statistics?
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1042/win...eology-balance

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Of course there isn't. There's never anything wrong with your team, and when there is, it's never nearly as bad as the team you don't like.
Progressives has supported wrong policies in the past and some who self label as progressive still do, but generally yes I'd say they have the best policies out of any political group in the country. For all your whining about how I'm not playing fair based on your retarded preconceptions you've yet to show me any modern progressive policies that I would disagree with (or any at all really).

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Despite the fact that the latter goes against the law, a law that you try to wrap yourself in when it gets subverted against something you support. You love them 4th and 5th amendments but fuck the 9th and 10th.Guess they're lower on the list so they're not as important, right?
I wouldn't say I wrap myself in it, either valid moral arguments can be made that happen to agree with the constitution or they can't. It's a good reference and metric but I certainly don't hold it absolute like some sort of child worshiping a golden calf because that's the way it's always been. I've already stated several times that's my position so I don't know why you keep bringing it up like I'm supposed to be embarrassed by it.

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It's amusing how you automatically assume that progressivism is inherently a good thing.
I don't assume it's automatically a good thing, it's simply the best collection of views I've found.

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But yet you are blind to what you're actually suggesting; it's ok to break the law when it supports your cause. Because you're always right. You know what's best for hundreds of millions of people.
I don't see how I'm blind to it since that's what I'm openly saying?

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There's no need for a framing document to control the government, you've got all the answers!
I didn't say that, in fact I think it's generally a good thing. What I did say is I don't hold it as an absolute and making correct moral choices is more important than legal tradition.


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Did you have to practice getting that much through your head or does it come naturally? You are the queen of misinformed assumptions, my dear.
Nope.


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Actually, that's exactly what you implied.It's akin to assuming all Germans are anti-semites. It's an idiot's look at history. I guess you're just the same old jim!
The vast majority of Germans and the populations of most European countries were anti-semitic, great analogy.

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Indeed. I should have ended up like the poster child of the ghetto neighborhood: demanding handouts and pretending everything is the white man's fault. Thrilled that you're keeping up the mantle, though. Power to the peeps.
Agreed

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lol
Ahaha...ha....eh

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Isn't that Goliath?
It's some wrestling dude, yeah. Surely you've seen They Live?
Old 01-12-2010, 03:04 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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