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Vote McCain!
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Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
Not necessarily but it can be a better alternative than leaving States to their own devices depending upon circumstances (i.e. is the federal government more progressive than the states in question?)



Look at civil rights. The federal government didnt do shit on the issue until after a whole bunch of state governments enacted their own laws protecting minorities. Then the federal government pulled its head out of its ass.
Old 12-22-2009, 04:14 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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chuckybob
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Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
The only "power" the masses have is to choose from candidates that are selected for them primarily based on their wealth and political connections.
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you keep talking about politicians like theres some cabal that requires birth right membership, but you completely fail to recognize that even the kennedys of the world had to be elected with votes from the people. not only that, but there is nothing to prevent anyone of legal age from attempting to be elected, and absolute nobodies HAVE been elected. the two party system isnt even an issue because people vote for who they want to vote for.

its absolutely amazing to me what people who feel disenfranchised will try to ration out to preserve their own egotistical way of looking at the world. "RON PAUL DIDNT WIN BECAUSE BIG GOVERNMENT DIDNT WANT HIM TO". no, ron paul didnt win because he didnt get enough votes because his positions on issues werent popular enough.

all of politics is literally and figuratively a popularity contest, and thats just the way it should be because politics is meant to serve the population's interests.
Old 12-22-2009, 04:21 PM chuckybob is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Originally Posted by Polyhedric Mu View Post
nice double standard there

He has his head too far up his ass to understand that.
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:39 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
In the case of the federal government holding back progressive states, yes that would be worse.
So all your care about is government being progressive? What if being progressive means restricting rights?
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The flaw in states rights is that it argues for absolutes. I have no interest in states rights if it means allowing regressive political and economic policies to remain or be enacted, which is almost always the case when someone presents themselves as champions of "states rights". If the state is enacting a progressive policy then I support them.
It doesn't argue for absolutes. You are conjuring up these arguments about state's rights supporters fighting for regressive policies based on half baked assumptions.
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The entire history of the South has been about one group dominating another and their attempts to keep them disenfranchised whether that be politically or economically. They were largely successful, it's still going on today and there's certainly no need to go back to slavery to find examples of such.
You don't seem to know anything about the south's history outside of a Spike Lee joint.
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I never said anything about the North. I used the South as an example because it's the most egregious example. It's cute that you get so worked up over it though.
Because it's a retarded argument. Cute as I may be (and heavens known I am sickeningly adorable) it doesn't change the fact that using the south as an argument against states rights doesn't make any sense. No one is going to reinstate slavery or segregation. Not even in Jesse Jackson's wildest dreams would Alabama or Mississippi or Georgia manage to that shit off or any other policy that would marginalize any group of people.


Except gays. And the entire damn country, north south east and west, is doing that so it doesn't work as an argument.
Old 12-23-2009, 10:12 AM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
The only "power" the masses have is to choose from candidates that are selected for them primarily based on their wealth and political connections.
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
I can't tell which is dumber, that you actually believe that or that you believe it because chomsky told you to.
Old 12-23-2009, 10:13 AM SemperFly is offline  
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Except gays. And the entire damn country, north south east and west, is doing that so it doesn't work as an argument.

which is a perfect example of why we had a civil war and the notion of "states rights" died with it.

there are no states rights. states have a right to follow the orders of the federal courts if they stray from what all the other states want, and that's about it.
Old 12-23-2009, 06:58 PM Xayd is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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which is a perfect example of why we had a civil war and the notion of "states rights" died with it.

there are no states rights. states have a right to follow the orders of the federal courts if they stray from what all the other states want, and that's about it.

the notion of states rights didn't die with it, moron. it's in the fucking bill of rights. although, you and others here are more than happy to ignore the ones you don't like but bitch and moan when the ones you do are trampled by the same people

That being said, states that do approve of gay marriage are still being fucked by the federal government on it. States that approve of medical marijuana are fucked by the feds. States that want to allow certain medical decisions to people are fucked by the feds. States that want to improve their education systems are fucked by the feds. States that want to take care of their protected lands are fucked by the feds.

If what you said was true then why would the federal government have to threaten states with withholding federal funds - funds that have been paid by the states, mind you - in order to force upon them laws that otherwise wouldn't pass muster because the federal government doesn't have the authority for it?

Quote:
states have a right to follow the orders of the federal courts if they stray from what all the other states want, and that's about it.
You really know nothing about how this government operates.
Old 12-23-2009, 09:58 PM SemperFly is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
which is a perfect example of why we had a civil war and the notion of "states rights" died with it.

there are no states rights. states have a right to follow the orders of the federal courts if they stray from what all the other states want, and that's about it.

You use Velcro don't you?
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:36 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
which is a perfect example of why we had a civil war and the notion of "states rights" died with it.

there are no states rights. states have a right to follow the orders of the federal courts if they stray from what all the other states want, and that's about it.

the civil war was about secession you fucktard
Old 12-23-2009, 11:49 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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chuckybob
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the civil war was about secession you fucktard

they wanted to succeed because of the issue of states rights
Old 12-23-2009, 11:54 PM chuckybob is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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Originally Posted by chuckybob View Post
they wanted to succeed because of the issue of states rights



Well if you want to put it like that, then the issue was: "Does a state have a right to not be a state?"

circular logic is awesome
Old 12-24-2009, 12:52 AM Vote McCain! is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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you guys are dumb. the civil war was about the right of every white man in the south to own at least a handful of black people. they didn't care about anything else but that. it was only by the grace of the loving northerners who abhorred the notion of slavery and wanted nothing more than to bring freedom and universal health care to the downtrodden black folk that dr sam beckett was able to set right what once went wrong

doo dee doot doot deet doo dodee do
Old 12-24-2009, 01:15 AM SemperFly is offline  
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chuckybob
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clearly
Old 12-24-2009, 02:06 AM chuckybob is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Originally Posted by louiethecat View Post

Oh god, the hospital is going to turn into a DMV though.

It's already a DMV. The only differnce is the illegals dont get billed for their medical care, and we do.



Thank god we're now on the same page as every other civilized democracy.
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:48 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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It's already a DMV. The only differnce is the illegals dont get billed for their medical care, and we do.



Thank god we're now on the same page as every other civilized democracy.

Because we were so deprived?
Anybody in need of medical care in this country could get it if they had the initiative.
No legislation is going to change that.

Mandating the purchase of insurance and then penalizing you for buying insurance which is "too good" is not going to make people live healthier lives.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:07 AM Zangmonkey is offline  
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