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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyhedric Mu View Post
nice double standard there

I'm not interested in being fair to a bunch of regressive conservatives.
Old 12-24-2009, 12:41 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post


Look at civil rights. The federal government didnt do shit on the issue until after a whole bunch of state governments enacted their own laws protecting minorities. Then the federal government pulled its head out of its ass.

lol
Old 12-24-2009, 12:41 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
So all your care about is government being progressive?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
What if being progressive means restricting rights?
I've never seen an instance where that's the case but I guess if someone could make a good argument for it then I would support it.


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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
It doesn't argue for absolutes. You are conjuring up these arguments about state's rights supporters fighting for regressive policies based on half baked assumptions.
No, I'm taking them directly from States rightists own arguments, that any powers not explicitly granted to the federal government in the constitution are reserved for the states.

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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
You don't seem to know anything about the south's history outside of a Spike Lee joint.
Funny that Southerners always say this when their history gets brought up, yet a basic study of the history of the South shows that it's almost entirely a history of wealthy whites dominating everyone else except when the federal government directly intervenes. It's a shame more poor and middle class whites aren't angry about their history of being exploited and manipulated, it would solve a lot of problems in the South.

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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
Because it's a retarded argument. Cute as I may be (and heavens known I am sickeningly adorable) it doesn't change the fact that using the south as an argument against states rights doesn't make any sense. No one is going to reinstate slavery or segregation. Not even in Jesse Jackson's wildest dreams would Alabama or Mississippi or Georgia manage to that shit off or any other policy that would marginalize any group of people.
I don't see how showing an example of a horrible regressive, bigoted, and hateful group of people as an example of the failings of states rights is retarded. It's direct evidence that it can end in disaster. Also if you think discrimination is over as a significant part of society in the South just because it isn't explicit government policy anymore you're deeply mistaken.


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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
Except gays. And the entire damn country, north south east and west, is doing that so it doesn't work as an argument.
All parts of the US are and always have been filled with bigots.
Old 12-24-2009, 12:53 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
I can't tell which is dumber, that you actually believe that or that you believe it because chomsky told you to.
You don't need to believe me or Chomsky, you just have to compare polls of what Americans support/care about with what mainstream politicians talk about and the policies they enact, especially before it becomes a focus of the media to manipulate the public into adopting establishment opinion.

Last edited by Patriotic Eagle; 12-24-2009 at 01:15 PM..
Old 12-24-2009, 12:56 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by chuckybob View Post
you keep talking about politicians like theres some cabal that requires birth right membership, but you completely fail to recognize that even the kennedys of the world had to be elected with votes from the people. not only that, but there is nothing to prevent anyone of legal age from attempting to be elected, and absolute nobodies HAVE been elected. the two party system isnt even an issue because people vote for who they want to vote for.
lol. Yes on a local and even national level it's possible for "outsiders" to get elected. However a few exceptions (who almost always end up adopting establishment rhetoric and policies anyway) doesn't mean the system isn't almost completely dominated by wealth and pre-existing political connections amongst the upper class.

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Originally Posted by chuckybob View Post
its absolutely amazing to me what people who feel disenfranchised will try to ration out to preserve their own egotistical way of looking at the world. "RON PAUL DIDNT WIN BECAUSE BIG GOVERNMENT DIDNT WANT HIM TO". no, ron paul didnt win because he didnt get enough votes because his positions on issues werent popular enough.
Ron Pauls policies were quite popular among conservatives, more popular than many of the candidates running, yet he performed quite badly.

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Originally Posted by chuckybob View Post
all of politics is literally and figuratively a popularity contest, and thats just the way it should be because politics is meant to serve the population's interests.
Popularity contests do not serve the peoples interests you retard.
Old 12-24-2009, 01:06 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
the civil war was about secession you fucktard

The civil war as about the wealthy elites in the South preserving their capital (slaves).
Old 12-24-2009, 01:12 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Tom
 
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Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
The civil war as about the wealthy elites in the South preserving their capital (slaves).

which is why the us should have done what most of europe did... buy up the slaves and set them free. But they didnt because the north wanted greater consolidation of power in the union.
Old 12-24-2009, 02:45 PM Tom is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
Yes.
That is why you fail.
Quote:

I've never seen an instance where that's the case but I guess if someone could make a good argument for it then I would support it.
Medical marijuana is nice example.
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No, I'm taking them directly from States rightists own arguments, that any powers not explicitly granted to the federal government in the constitution are reserved for the states.
No, you're not. What you just said does not match up with what you said before. What you just said is the law. What you were bitching about before was not a common argument among proponents of states rights.
Quote:

Funny that Southerners always say this when their history gets brought up, yet a basic study of the history of the South shows that it's almost entirely a history of wealthy whites dominating everyone else except when the federal government directly intervenes. It's a shame more poor and middle class whites aren't angry about their history of being exploited and manipulated, it would solve a lot of problems in the South.
A basic study. Anything beyond a basic, fifth grade level study of the south shows that what you think is so off the mark I can't even find it with google maps.
Quote:

I don't see how showing an example of a horrible regressive, bigoted, and hateful group of people as an example of the failings of states rights is retarded. It's direct evidence that it can end in disaster. Also if you think discrimination is over as a significant part of society in the South just because it isn't explicit government policy anymore you're deeply mistaken.
Because it's nearly two hundred years old and is an ideology pushed by a few thousand people in a country of a few hundred million.

I'm not mistaken. Discrimination still exists everywhere but to think it's a significant part of southern society shows you're taking everything you know about it from Spike Lee movies.
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All parts of the US are and always have been filled with bigots.
Contain, yes. Filled? No.
Old 12-24-2009, 03:44 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
You don't need to believe me or Chomsky
good, because you're both off your fucking rockers
Quote:
, you just have to compare polls of what Americans support/care about with what mainstream politicians talk about and the policies they enact, especially before it becomes a focus of the media to manipulate the public into adopting establishment opinion.
Unless it's someone you support, of course.
Old 12-24-2009, 03:46 PM SemperFly is offline  
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#114  

chuckybob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
lol. Yes on a local and even national level it's possible for "outsiders" to get elected. However a few exceptions (who almost always end up adopting establishment rhetoric and policies anyway) doesn't mean the system isn't almost completely dominated by wealth and pre-existing political connections amongst the upper class.

thats because running a successful campaign requires exposure, which requires either A) money or B) someone willing to finance. people arent likely to back a political candidate who's views differ from their own, and so we have things now like the republican party only financially backing candidates if they align with certain ideals. the internet, as much as it has helped with exposure, has harmed the credibility of otherwise legitimate candidates by placing them in the same category as every weirdo who wants to run and has a web site (myself included. i ran for president in 2004 even though neither i nor my running mate were 35 and lost by a landslide. we did get something like 0.00000009% of the popular vote though.).

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Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
Ron Pauls policies were quite popular among conservatives, more popular than many of the candidates running, yet he performed quite badly.

says you. back it up with polls from near the time of the primary election.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
Popularity contests do not serve the peoples interests you retard.

youre using the colloquial definition, im using the dictionary defnition.

pop⋅u⋅lar⋅i⋅ty
  /ˌpɒpyəˈlærɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pop-yuh-lar-i-tee] Show IPA
Use popularity in a Sentence
See web results for popularity
See images of popularity
–noun
1. the quality or fact of being popular.

you could argue that the people dont really know whats best for them and that killing jews was popular with the german people in ww2, but the fact is that our system of government is based on the idea that popular opinion rules (within the frame of the founder's documents).
Old 12-24-2009, 04:19 PM chuckybob is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
It's already a DMV. The only differnce is the illegals dont get billed for their medical care, and we do.



Thank god we're now on the same page as every other civilized democracy.

I see a Fifth amendment challenge to UHC there.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:26 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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[QUOTE=Patriotic Eagle;24087376
Ron Pauls policies were quite popular among conservatives, more popular than many of the candidates running, yet he performed quite badly.[/QUOTE]

Because what you think of as conservatives are not actually conservatives. Virtually none of the policies and ideals espoused by the Republican party today fall under the (until very recent) definition of conservative. Conservative does not mean socially restrictive; it describes one's opinion of how much influence government should have in our lives.

Banning gay marriage, wars on drugs and terror, foreign interventionist policies are not conservative.
Old 12-24-2009, 08:53 PM SemperFly is offline  
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#117  

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they wanted to succeed because of the issue of states rights

bahahaha

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Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
the civil war was about secession you fucktard

bahahahaha x 2

such convenient lies you people make up to tell yourselves.

  • from south carolina's official address to other southern states prior to their secession...

    The hypocrisy of thirty years -- the faithlessness of their whole course from the commencement of our union with them -- show that the people of the non-slaveholding North are not and cannot be safe associates of the slaveholding South under a common Government.

  • from the louisiana delegation's spokesman, talking to the texas secession delegation...

    Louisiana looks to the formation of a Southern confederacy to preserve the blessings of African slavery. Louisiana supplies to Texas a market for her surplus wheat, grain and stock; both States have large areas of fertile, uncultivated lands, peculiarly adapted to slave labor; and they are both so deeply interested in African slavery that it may be said to be absolutely necessary to their existence, and is the keystone to the arch of their prosperity. The people of Louisiana would consider it a most fatal blow to African slavery, if Texas either did not secede or having seceded should not join her destinies to theirs in a Southern Confederacy.

  • tennessee governor speaking to that state's secession delegation...

    There is no power on earth which can rightfully determine whether slavery shall or shall not exist within the limits of any State, except the people thereof acting in their highest sovereign capacity.

    The attempt of the Northern people, through the instrumentality of the Federal Government--their State governments, and emigrant aid societies--to confine this species of property within the limits of the present Southern States--to impair its value by constant agitation and refusal to deliver up the fugitive--to appropriate the whole of the Territories, which are the common property all the people of all the States, to the Southern man who is unwilling to live under a government which, may by law recognize the free negroe as his equal, is justly regarded by the people of the Southern States as a gross and palpable violation of the spirit and obvious meaning of the compact of Union--an impertinent intermeddling with their domestic affairs, destructive of fraternal feeling, ordinary comity, and well defined rights.


  • from the articles of confederation of the southern seceding states...

    (4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

  • Texas ordinance of secession

    In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and the negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.
Old 12-25-2009, 01:28 AM Xayd is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Thanks for the economics lesson
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:18 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#119  

Phil Taylor
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say hello to being able to go and get your broken arm fixed without having to pay $100 just to sit down in the doctor's office, more like.
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nigga, you just made me click "go advanced"...
Old 12-25-2009, 03:48 PM Phil Taylor is offline  
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