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Tom Kazansky
911 Was an Inside Job. Bush is traitor like Prescott Bush
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Woah, a Pit argument that ends with some kind of consensus?


Weird.

My head just exploded.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:34 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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pyramid
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Originally Posted by CommiePunk View Post
are you really arguing that convicted felons should have more rights

really?

why not? are all the felons going to get together and be a major voting/lobbying block and overturn all the laws they were convicted of?

if they have served their sentence why shouldn't they be allowed to vote? Hell, I think they should be allowed to vote absentee from jail/prison.
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Old 02-17-2010, 03:32 AM pyramid is offline  
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Xayd
 
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Glad to see you're all about paying for someone's heroin addiction. That should really help them become contributing members of society.

glad to see you're still trying to legislate morality.

it hasn't worked in thousands of years. but it'll be different next time, right? just have to think of a reason why before the next election.

btw WE ALMOST GOT ROE V. WADE OVERTURNED WE JUST NEED 500 MORE DOLLARS THIS TIME IS CRITICAL FRIENDS

Old 02-17-2010, 10:41 AM Xayd is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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glad to see you're still trying to legislate morality.

it hasn't worked in thousands of years. but it'll be different next time, right? just have to think of a reason why before the next election.

You can quite easily be opposed to giving welfare to hard drug users without using a moral argument.
Old 02-17-2010, 10:54 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Xayd
 
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You can quite easily be opposed to giving welfare to hard drug users without using a moral argument.

how about "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

where does that argument fall in?
Old 02-17-2010, 12:30 PM Xayd is offline  
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#140  

chuckybob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
You mean the entire rest of society that doesn't bother showing up to vote anyway?

so youre proposing that the 3M incarcerated felons are all going to vote simultaneously on an issue affecting them, outweighing the other 250M voters who bother to show up or not?
Old 02-17-2010, 12:52 PM chuckybob is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
911 Was an Inside Job. Bush is traitor like Prescott Bush
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
glad to see you're still trying to legislate morality.

it hasn't worked in thousands of years. but it'll be different next time, right? just have to think of a reason why before the next election.

btw WE ALMOST GOT ROE V. WADE OVERTURNED WE JUST NEED 500 MORE DOLLARS THIS TIME IS CRITICAL FRIENDS


That's quite possibly the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard you say. How am I legislating morality? Do you think there's anything beneficial to allowing a heroin addict to continue to feed their addiction that is destroying their body, their work prospects, and their ability to contribute positively to society? I'm glad to see you think it's "moral" to finance peoples habits that only lead to self-destruction.
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:59 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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You can quite easily be opposed to giving welfare to hard drug users without using a moral argument.
Not really. Logically it does nothing but worsen their position since simply cutting them off from government assistance is almost certainly not going to make them give up their addiction, it just makes them more desperate. What they need is a rehabilitation program, job assistance, support for their community in general. Punishing them by refusing to give them welfare is a moral judgement.
Old 02-17-2010, 01:42 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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so youre proposing that the 3M incarcerated felons are all going to vote simultaneously on an issue affecting them, outweighing the other 250M voters who bother to show up or not?

Every vote counts, and enough of the 250M other voters will sway in that direction to add to the thousands upon thousands of American felons.

Either way, it's not the point. That's part of the penalty.
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:14 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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chuckybob
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Every vote counts, and enough of the 250M other voters will sway in that direction to add to the thousands upon thousands of American felons.

so out of 253 million, all 3 million prisoners are going to vote unilaterally because absolutely positively none of them are repentant or would decline voting, and another 123 million will all agree that felons should have shorter sentences? thatll happen

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Either way, it's not the point. That's part of the penalty.

fair enough
Old 02-17-2010, 02:30 PM chuckybob is offline  
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#145  

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for a short period of time in my life my family was forced to be on foodstamps and each month my mom and I would have to travel on down to the welfare center to pick them up and what we saw there each and every time made me hate the world around us

every single scumbag that was down there had the newest cellphones, the nicest sneakers and clothes, newest handheld videogame systems, and they were all decked out in gold jewelry

fortunately we were only had them for 3-4 months while my mom was out on disability but even years later when I worked registers at a grocery store I would see these same dirtbags come in and buy their shrimp, steaks, lobsters and whatever else with their foodstamps and use their stacks of real cash to buy the necessary shit like milk or cereal for their kids

I personally think something has to change with this fucking system I know so many people barely getting by who actually have jobs and are decent members of society getting fucked over by the fucking scum that are ripping off these programs
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:55 PM growler is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Not really. Logically it does nothing but worsen their position since simply cutting them off from government assistance is almost certainly not going to make them give up their addiction, it just makes them more desperate. What they need is a rehabilitation program, job assistance, support for their community in general. Punishing them by refusing to give them welfare is a moral judgement.

I'm all in favor giving them help to get them off drugs, like access to treatment programs. I am not in favor of handing them cash (or food stamps, which are basically just proxy cash) without any condition that requires them to do SOMETHING productive to get themselves off the drugs and at least work towards becoming a productive member of society. I don't see any reason why my tax money should go to buy food or pay rent for a drug user who makes no attempt to stop using drugs (assuming help is available) and can't hold down a job to pay for his habit. You're basically enabling behavior that hurts society. That's not a moral judgement.
Old 02-17-2010, 03:26 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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how about "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

where does that argument fall in?

You respond to my post saying you don't need to make a moral argument with a moral platitude?

Seriously, if you engage your brain for a second it's not hard to see how routing government money to unrepentant drug users is bad for society in a concrete way. That makes it not a moral judgement. Give people access to treatment programs, whatever, but don't just send my tax money to junkies so they can afford to do smack while not working.
Old 02-17-2010, 03:47 PM Gibonius is offline  
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#148  

Tom Kazansky
911 Was an Inside Job. Bush is traitor like Prescott Bush
 
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Originally Posted by chuckybob View Post
so out of 253 million, all 3 million prisoners are going to vote unilaterally because absolutely positively none of them are repentant or would decline voting, and another 123 million will all agree that felons should have shorter sentences? thatll happen

It's not a question of the numbers, it's a question of the possibility of them adding enough to one candidate that supports their interests more (ie, softer on crime). There's more than enough people who are soft on crime and are not felons to make that a realistic possibility. This is especially true in Canada, where convicted terrorists were let out of custody the day of their conviction due to things like triple and double time pre-trial credit, and the fact that the people who wrote Canada's code of laws are a bunch of pussies. Believe it or not, there are more than enough people who seem fine with this, simply because they believe being in prison might "corrupt them" or "make them a better criminal", as if they'd get much worse than they already were considering they designed and were building a functional bomb to blow up major economic and government buildings in Toronto. Of course, they're "citizens", so they have a right to vote. I'm sure they wont be voting for candidates that want to do things like attack the people responsible for 9/11, for example, or even be tough on domestic terrorism.

And yes, I'm absolutely serious, a lot of people in Canada are that retarded. There are enough people who will vote in far left candidates who think 5 minutes in the box is enough time for a murderer, because Lord forbid they go to jail and be "corrupted" by the prison population.
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:38 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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chuckybob
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ok, i can see the conflict of interest there. itd be kind of like if people who were on welfare were allowed to vote whether to keep it or not

OH WAIT

democracy and republicanism are both meant to serve the interests of the majority of society. thats how they function. excluding any segment of the population on issues that affect them is contrary to the nature of both of our country's systems.

youre gonna have to explain this pre-trial credit stuff. i dont think we have anything like that here in the u.s.

how much popularity do these far left candidates who think that a slap on the wrist is literally all thats required have exactly? it seems like you might be citing wackjobs as serious contenders.
Old 02-17-2010, 04:48 PM chuckybob is offline  
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