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Bukkakeboy
 
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I also love how when someone actually replies well (frenetic) he just dismisses and talks about something else
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:24 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Beyoncey has the best video of All Time
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:43 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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#17  

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I don't think it matters how many die. It matters how things change based on the balance of power. The US has been a dominant force in world culture since the end of WWII. That can mean a LOT of things.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:45 AM Bunchies is offline  
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#18  

Conna
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by curdledvomit View Post
OK guys enough about the Al Gore deal...yall were perplexed at my post and I was just using that as an example so as to get you to understand what I was trying to convey. From the posts I have seen ...I still think some of you seem to be trying to hard. It is not so much about the casualties but the process in general. The way we see history.
Example...

Ask a person on the street who killed the most people in history and most would say Hitler. Is this true?

Who invented the motor car? Opinions vary.

Why was the nation called Persia renamed Iran? Who was responsible?

You're making little sense here. Ok, so you don't want answers to the questions you presented. Definitive answers do exist however, are you talking about how a) some people don't know those answers, or b) some people have misconceptions and think they know?

Quote:
The point of this thread is to look deep into why we are what we are because of historic misinformation.

Might we be a different nation if lets say Ben Franklin was the one who invented a vaccine for polio?
What the fuck do these two things have to do with each other? Yes, the current state of the world is consequence of historical events, and if said historical events were different, then the world would most likely be different as well.
Old 03-16-2010, 11:52 AM Conna is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conna View Post
You're making little sense here. Ok, so you don't want answers to the questions you presented. Definitive answers do exist however, are you talking about how a) some people don't know those answers, or b) some people have misconceptions and think they know?



What the fuck do these two things have to do with each other? Yes, the current state of the world is consequence of historical events, and if said historical events were different, then the world would most likely be different as well.

ok so maybe I am trying too hard. Maybe i am delusional and have gojne too deep into the rabbit hole...who knows.

Let me try one more time and if i cant make sense we can let this thread die like a rickrolled gopher.

Oh and I am not avoiding anyone...Frenetic is a great guy and I respect him and his posts more than 99.9% of the people here.

History tells us that a long time ago, we had slaves and treated blacks like animals. At that time , some people thought that was fine. They thought it was the gospel truth. They thought blacks were lower life forms.

Today, we don't feel that way at all. What changed? History did not change. We did in fact have slaves etc...what made us as a specis, change our mind about black people?

A history book written in 1800 will have a drastic diffferent opinion or outlook on life in America during the 1800s. A history book written today has a drastic opinion of life in the USA today. I know we have had progress, inventions etc...that have changed the way of life. I was just interested in that change and how it migt be different if the historic events leading up to that opinion would be different.
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:08 PM curdledvomit is offline  
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joemama
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Beyoncey has the best video of All Time
Is that the Vegas impersonator for Beyonce'?
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:51 PM joemama is offline  
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#21  

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It seems like you're asking way too broad a question that could go anywhere. You're basically asking people to discuss every historical topic and how it affects our lives. It's just too big. The state of the world today is the summary of innumerable past actions, reported accurately or not, and it's basically going to be impossible to figure out the exact effects of all of them. People can talk about different snippets as you bring them up, but it's not really connected.
Old 03-16-2010, 04:07 PM Gibonius is offline  
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History tells us that a long time ago, we had slaves and treated blacks like animals. At that time , some people thought that was fine. They thought it was the gospel truth. They thought blacks were lower life forms.

Today, we don't feel that way at all. What changed? History did not change. We did in fact have slaves etc...what made us as a specis, change our mind about black people?
The thing that changed was massive social and political reform over time. Just like the rest of the civilized world, America was figuring out it wasn't okay to own another human being. It was flying in the face of American principles, and was finally made clear in the 13th amendment. Saying "history did not change" is a non-sequitor because you're confusing history with sociology. And just like I said before, history changes ALL THE TIME when better evidence is presented. A good example, since we're on the subject of black people, is the idea that after slavery that blacks were basically illiterate victims in America until civil rights rolled around. But newly discovered letters and records show a rich collection of black book clubs and discussion groups across America, from pre-emancipation onward. And so, history's perspective changes to fit that picture.

Quote:
A history book written in 1800 will have a drastic diffferent opinion or outlook on life in America during the 1800s. A history book written today has a drastic opinion of life in the USA today. I know we have had progress, inventions etc...that have changed the way of life. I was just interested in that change and how it migt be different if the historic events leading up to that opinion would be different.
It depends on what you mean by "drastic different opinion" on life in America in the 1800s. First off, I'm going to assume the 1800 history book goes back a little further in your example because a book written in 1800 won't have much to say about life in the 19th century. But the 1800 history book will match our history books on the dates of famous battles, the establishment of new states, and such. However, it will reflect the social mores of its time, so maybe they'll leave out the achievements of women, or maybe defame their rivals more. The "change of opinion" on what happens in our history books today is simply a presentation of better evidence to a clearer picture. So I guess the biggest difference is that historians today don't care about making America or Great Britain look awesome anymore.

As for your last sentence, I wouldn't even know where to begin. I have no idea how our general lives would be different if the events leading up to the them were different.
Old 03-16-2010, 05:30 PM Frenetic is offline  
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Ok I guess I was clearer sine the posts after, Frenetic et al aare good.

So lets now contemplate the Issue in Texas about our student text books. I have not followed it much as I should but it seems we have a "board" of people who decide what will be taught and what will not be tught. Is this a good thing? I heard some right wing radicals want to teach that evoloution is a lie. That sounds a bit looney to me. And we all have heard about the wrong facts being put into text book etc...
So why is this a problem? I would think history, at least past history is static fact. Why would there be arguments over it? I know that we caant put everything into our childrens text books but we should at least put facts in them. ideological opinions have no place in a class room in high school and that can be argue for some college classes exceept where the class is actually one that is based on idelogical opinions. Say for instance a college class, Biology 101 most likely will not be a place where your student might be exposed to the radical teachings or ideas of Malcom x. On the other hand, a political science course on Rac9ial Tensions in America might have some of that in it or not.


ramble on...
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:34 AM curdledvomit is offline  
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#24  

joemama
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The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.

-Nicola Tesla

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Old 03-17-2010, 06:02 AM joemama is offline  
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#25  

Gibonius
 
The irony of that quote is that Tesla basically ended up going crazy.
Old 03-17-2010, 07:34 AM Gibonius is offline  
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#26  

Bukkakeboy
 
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You are ranting again vomit
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:55 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Is that the Vegas impersonator for Beyonce'?

It's the I don't know how to spell Nigerish version. Just like I dont pronounce Sade with an R
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:19 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#28  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenetic View Post

The "change of opinion" on what happens in our history books today is simply a presentation of better evidence to a clearer picture. .

This I somewhat disagree with. Most of the changes I have seen in what is taught compared to 40 years ago is purely ideological re imaging. Straight Orwellian News Speak.
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:25 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#29  

Bukkakeboy
 
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New Speak
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:39 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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