Healthcare Passed!

[loner]

Originally Posted by TheMorlock

Arjuna, until we solve the aging process all the problems you list will come to pass no matter what. It just depends on when.

Holy SHIT.

You are fucking retarded.

[TheMorlock]

Originally Posted by loner

Holy SHIT.

You are fucking retarded.

Fantastic rebuttal!

[Fuckyouformakingmeregister]

Originally Posted by TheMorlock

Fantastic rebuttal!

It's not like he needs a good rebuttal when debating with someone (i.e.: you) who doesn't understand why Venus is hotter than Mercury.

[Zangmonkey]

Originally Posted by Bukkakeboy

and how is this best?

When a significant portion of your citizens don't have access to said service, your country does not have the best service in the world

You may have the best service for the privileged, but that is not a good measure for an entire country's healthcare system.

A significant amount of citizens don't have access to many services yet we still consider them "best"
Best automobiles?
Best air travel?
How about best insurance of any other kind?

The entire country is entitled to required health care and it has been that way for a long time.
However, for the time being we have access to outstanding care if we choose to get a plan which helps us pay for services we want.

The "for-profit" system has historically yielded good services at competitive prices.
You may think the prices are "high" but the alternative is "high" prices subsidized for you by others, or artificially low prices compromising quality.

[Zangmonkey]

Originally Posted by loner

Holy SHIT.

You are fucking retarded.

The point .

Your head .

[TheMorlock]

Originally Posted by Fuckyouformakingmeregister

It's not like he needs a good rebuttal when debating with someone (i.e.: you) who doesn't understand why Venus is hotter than Mercury.

haven't you been slapped around enough?

[Arjuna]

Originally Posted by TheMorlock

Arjuna, until we solve the aging process all the problems you list will come to pass no matter what. It just depends on when.

What

Its not about preventing these disease processes. And they can't be readily cured, hence "chronic." What I'm talking about is simple outpatient management over time which prevents complications vs. poor control of these conditions causing acute care visits to treat progressive disease and complications, which is 1) far more expensive and 2) a horrible way to address chronic disease and 3) lead to worse outcomes for the patient.

One example that I saw recently: woman with diabetes and no insurance with very spotty long-term follow-up. Often unable to get meds and frequently presented to an outside hospital with various complications of poorly controlled diabetes. They decided to put a port in her (chronic indwelling venous catheter for long-term access for blood draws or infusions) because she was such a frequent flyer in their ER and is a "tough stick." She has since started forming clots around the indwelling catheter and throwing them to the lungs, often unrecognized until later, with pulmonary infarcts and now some pulmonary fibrosis (scarring) as a result. So now she has (mostly iatrogenic) lung damage and her diabetes is still as horribly controlled as ever. This is a condition easily managed with a 15 minute clinic appointment several times a year, and yet she's had an inordinate amount of acute care exposure for her complications that have done nothing to affect her underlying disease. She is still fairly young and has all the cardiovascular complications of poorly controlled DM to look forward to.

These are the things that I hope become less common one day.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by TheMorlock

haven't you been slapped around enough?

lol themorcock is still on fire!

it'll be interesting to see in 10 years time if this healthcare shitz actually helps the economy or hurts it

also, arjuna, a 15 minute clinic appointment several times a year with no insurance don't really cost shit in the big picture, so really she should have taken the initiative to do what's best for her own health. if you break down all the numbers, it should only cost up to 10 bucks a day to manage diabetes with insulin all on your own dime with no insurance. and that's for the EXPENSIVE insulin that is 3 to 6 times more expensive than the average stuff. With the cheaper stuff, she should be able to manage her diabetes for 3-5 bucks a day.

[TheMorlock]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

lol themorcock is still on fire!

it'll be interesting to see in 10 years time if this healthcare shitz actually helps the economy or hurts it

Catepillar equipment was a leading point in Obama's recovery strategy. Claiming how american industry would be revitilized and he was securing the future for these workers.

Well Catepillar had to let 2200 workers go since the Stimulus bill. Now they are taking a 100 million charge against earnings in direct response to the taxation they will face with the health care bill.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by TheMorlock

Catepillar equipment was a leading point in Obama's recovery strategy. Claiming how american industry would be revitilized and he was securing the future for these workers.

Well Catepillar had to let 2200 workers go since the Stimulus bill. Now they are taking a 100 million charge against earnings in direct response to the taxation they will face with the health care bill.

Caterpillar's net income for fy 2009 is up from what it was for 2008. Sucks about letting 2200 workers go, but the corporation itself seems to be doing quite well. It's sad when workers become redundant, but they have to take it upon themselves to find a productive role in society.

[TheMorlock]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

Caterpillar's net income for fy 2009 is up from what it was for 2008. Sucks about letting 2200 workers go, but the corporation itself seems to be doing quite well. It's sad when workers become redundant, but they have to take it upon themselves to find a productive role in society.

When you cut that many jobs you get a temporary net profit. But it has a habit of being the death knell of an ever spiraling downspin. Like Kodak and Xerox Both are shells of the companies they once were.

Now they will cut more workers to offset some of that 100 mill charge. You dont build and sell many 4 million plus machines when the world economy is "contracting"

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by TheMorlock

When you cut that many jobs you get a temporary net profit. But it has a habit of being the death knell of an ever spiraling downspin. Like Kodak and Xerox Both are shells of the companies they once were.

Now they will cut more workers to offset some of that 100 mill charge. You dont build and sell many 4 million plus machines when the world economy is "contracting"

Welp. Sucks for Caterpillar then. That's odd because I could've sworn I read about them doing well overall due to exports to Asia and Brazil.

Anyways blablabla healthcare. Sucks about that girl with diabetes but it's by no means something that is unmanageable without insurance. Her choice to wait until things are horrible before getting help is just a result of her being a dumbass.

[TheMorlock]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

Welp. Sucks for Caterpillar then. That's odd because I could've sworn I read about them doing well in exports to Asia and Brazil.

well checking their stock they started doing well around 2004 and were on the rise untill april of 2008 when they started a slide down from 85 to 24 by Feb 09 and are now back up to jan 2006 levels around 60. Hopefully the third world will keep needing our big machines for awhile.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by TheMorlock

well checking their stock they started doing well around 2004 and were on the rise untill april of 2008 when they started a slide down from 85 to 24 by Feb 09 and are now back up to jan 2006 levels around 60. Hopefully the third world will keep needing our big machines for awhile.

My attempt to stay on topic-ish: Do you have health insurance? If you do, I'm wondering if you're going to be personally benefiting from this health care bill. Perhaps lower premiums or something? Maybe cheaper drugs?

[TheMorlock]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

My attempt to stay on topic-ish: Do you have health insurance? If you do, I'm wondering if you're going to be personally benefiting from this health care bill. Perhaps lower premiums or something? Maybe cheaper drugs?

Yes I have health care. Taxes on the company will kill my profit sharing and taxes on any Med flex spending will keep me from getting work I want done that wont be covered.

I wont benefit at all.