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ApathyEcstasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
Yes I have health care. Taxes on the company will kill my profit sharing and taxes on any Med flex spending will keep me from getting work I want done that wont be covered.

I wont benefit at all.

Well that fucking sucks. Is there any merit to the idea that this health care bill will auto-repeal itself in practice through the federal budget getting ass-raped?
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:13 AM ApathyEcstasy is offline  
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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy View Post
Well that fucking sucks. Is there any merit to the idea that this health care bill will auto-repeal itself in practice through the federal budget getting ass-raped?

Well the major part should get shot down by SCOTUS. There is no precedent for making it law that people have to buy something at the government order.

But the reason that they are not implementing significant changes for three years is so they can pre collect the money that is supposed to back it.

GAO says no fucking way.
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:20 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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bingstudent
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Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
Well the major part should get shot down by SCOTUS. There is no precedent for making it law that people have to buy something at the government order.

This is a really interesting aspect of law, I bet conservatives are kicking themselves for Raich now.
Old 03-27-2010, 10:16 AM bingstudent is offline  
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TheMorlock
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I am not sure how a supremecy/commerce clause would would affect this. Banning the sale of somerhing is not the same as requiring the purchase of something.

You will have to elucidate for me if you meant some other aspect.
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:18 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Arjuna
 
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Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy View Post
also, arjuna, a 15 minute clinic appointment several times a year with no insurance don't really cost shit in the big picture, so really she should have taken the initiative to do what's best for her own health. if you break down all the numbers, it should only cost up to 10 bucks a day to manage diabetes with insulin all on your own dime with no insurance. and that's for the EXPENSIVE insulin that is 3 to 6 times more expensive than the average stuff. With the cheaper stuff, she should be able to manage her diabetes for 3-5 bucks a day.

Sure, I agree, she could have made it more of a priority to take care of her diabetes. But I readily see why she and many, many others in similar circumstances don't make such things a priority. One of the problems with many chronic diseases is that you don't really feel them. Reasonably high blood pressure, reasonably high glucose, high cholesterol...the average person doesn't feel the underlying condition until they lead to a heart attack, stroke, DKA, etc. It isn't difficult to see why someone on a fixed income and without much in the way of medical knowledge may forgo seeking the out-of-pocket medical care we clearly know she needed.
Old 03-27-2010, 01:02 PM Arjuna is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
Sure, I agree, she could have made it more of a priority to take care of her diabetes. But I readily see why she and many, many others in similar circumstances don't make such things a priority. One of the problems with many chronic diseases is that you don't really feel them. Reasonably high blood pressure, reasonably high glucose, high cholesterol...the average person doesn't feel the underlying condition until they lead to a heart attack, stroke, DKA, etc. It isn't difficult to see why someone on a fixed income and without much in the way of medical knowledge may forgo seeking the out-of-pocket medical care we clearly know she needed.

So we should pay for others stupidity, I get it now
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Old 03-27-2010, 01:49 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Arjuna
 
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So we should pay for others stupidity, I get it now

We already are. The difference is we pay a lot more when it wanders into an ER than we do when it is followed in a clinic.
Old 03-27-2010, 01:56 PM Arjuna is offline  
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TheMorlock
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We already are. The difference is we pay a lot more when it wanders into an ER than we do when it is followed in a clinic.

Ummm no. We will be paying a lot more under health care reform.
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Old 03-27-2010, 02:00 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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loner
 
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Ummm no. We will be paying a lot more under health care reform.

Good evidence!
Old 03-28-2010, 09:57 AM loner is offline  
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#204  

loner
 
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I am not sure how a supremecy/commerce clause would would affect this. Banning the sale of somerhing is not the same as requiring the purchase of something.

My local utility authority is building out a new sewer system (everyone currently uses wells here). It was mandated that once the sewer system is laid down, everyone would be required to pay for the hook-up to the system and must then abandon their wells and use the system. The argument was very similar to the argument for forced buy-in to health insurance--that a larger pool (no pun intended...) is needed to make the system solvent.

The government's authority to mandate paying to hook up to the system was challenged in state court. State determined that the local authority had the right to force this mandate.

That said, after they received enough complaints, the local utility authority decided to make the hook-up optional (but the local authority has the right to revoke that option at any time it so chooses).

Arguing neither one way or another, but showing at least some local and state level precedent.
Old 03-28-2010, 10:05 AM loner is offline  
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Jason
 
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My local utility authority is building out a new sewer system (everyone currently uses wells here). It was mandated that once the sewer system is laid down, everyone would be required to pay for the hook-up to the system and must then abandon their wells and use the system. The argument was very similar to the argument for forced buy-in to health insurance--that a larger pool (no pun intended...) is needed to make the system solvent.

The government's authority to mandate paying to hook up to the system was challenged in state court. State determined that the local authority had the right to force this mandate.

That said, after they received enough complaints, the local utility authority decided to make the hook-up optional (but the local authority has the right to revoke that option at any time it so chooses).

Arguing neither one way or another, but showing at least some local and state level precedent.

That isn't really the same thing. The federal government has the right to regulate interstate commerce... that would be goods and services that go across state lines, or has the potential to. Something like a local utility is more along the lines of a property tax which they also have the authority to do usually through county laws or a city charter. The federal government has no right to tell you that you HAVE TO engage in interstate commerce. Local is different because when you buy property it is in your paperwork that you will abide by the rules and regulations of that locale. Utility is one of those things, as is trash pickup, hospitals, and whatever else they have voted to allow you to be required to pay for. You've signed no such paperwork for living in the United States.
Old 03-28-2010, 10:33 AM Jason is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofugger View Post
"House gives final approval to 'fixes' for health care law"

So they deliberately pushed something through that they knew was flawed?

Bait and switch.

Let the house bill remove certain things even some dems cant stomach and know their constituents will oust them over.

Then put it back in with "reconciliation" vote in the senate and those house dems can "truthfully" claim that they did not vote for those parts and would not have voted for a bill that contained them.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:28 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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loner
 
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You've signed no such paperwork for living in the United States.

I don't know that you have to sign any paperwork. You are a U.S. citizen. Inherent in accepting your US citizenship is an agreement to abide by federal law. Don't like the law? You have the choice of either a)dealing with it or, b)renouncing your citizenship and going somewhere else that doesn't have that same law.

I agree that there's not a true precedent for healthcare. But lack of precedent does not dictate that the law will not pass. Just means they'll be treading new ground on the subject, which they already knew they were doing.
Old 03-29-2010, 04:31 AM loner is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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What's this I hear about "forgetting" the children's pre-existing conditions clause?
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:39 AM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Coqui
 
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What's this I hear about "forgetting" the children's pre-existing conditions clause?

Loophole.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:54 AM Coqui is offline  
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