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dvargas24
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by djduquet View Post
I'm not sure what to think upon this subject. This could end well or very poorly.


I'm with you. I have no particular reason to be opposed to healthcare reform, and I think some of the bullet points are good things, but my main concern is with the way they are paying for it.

First, I don't see how the feds can force someone to buy a product, in this case health insurance.

Further, I'm worried about that 40% tax on the cadillac health care plans. I am a non-union worker with excellent health insurance and I *might* fall under than umbrella. According to the FactCheck link, the theory is that my company should switch to a lower cost plan, raise my salary to make up for the difference, then the feds can tax me for my higher salary in order to pay for the new bill.
So they want to lower my health care benefits, then take more money out of my pocket? awesome! It doesn't take effect for a while, but still, wtf.
Old 03-22-2010, 07:50 AM dvargas24 is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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I am predicting that many people will drop their coverage and opt to pay the fine, then purchase coverage when they get sick.

This legislation eliminated the "insurance" model entirely.

Furthermore, the federal government is mandating the citizens to purchase a service.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:52 AM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCviggen View Post
It's not like the current system is cheap or desirable. In fact it's been suggested the changes will save money over a few years.

TBH I think the people who are most against it just don't understand what it's actually about and how it works.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/a-f...d-of-whoppers/ always a good read.

It's been suggested certainly; but not in a reliable fashion.

In fact, the only way they could get the cost under their magic "Iraq" number was to begin the funding right away but delay the implementation of the results.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:54 AM Zangmonkey is offline  
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coalesce
 
Until you've worked at a bank on the first and third of the month, you have no clue just how broken welfare programs are. Lots of abled bodied men and women abusing the system paid for by the people who work.

People who work hard are gonna have to work harder so those who won't work as hard or at all can benefit from us..
Old 03-22-2010, 08:04 AM coalesce is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
I am predicting that many people will drop their coverage and opt to pay the fine, then purchase coverage when they get sick.

So now that people will get fined for not having insurance, they're going to stop paying premiums and risk paying the fine, when they could have stopped paying premiums and had no fine prior to this?

Makes sense to me. After all Americans feel they need to pay for something. So why not make sure you get nothing for it.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:17 AM Coqui is offline  
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dvargas24
 
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Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
So now that people will get fined for not having insurance, they're going to stop paying premiums and risk paying the fine, when they could have stopped paying premiums and had no fine prior to this?

Makes sense to me. After all Americans feel they need to pay for something. So why not make sure you get nothing for it.

I believe the argument here is that since insurance companies now cannot reject you for a pre-existing condition, why not wait until you are sick/injured to buy coverage? I'm guessing the fine will be less than the cost of carrying a decent health insurance plan for a full year.
Old 03-22-2010, 08:28 AM dvargas24 is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvargas24 View Post
I believe the argument here is that since insurance companies now cannot reject you for a pre-existing condition, why not wait until you are sick/injured to buy coverage? I'm guessing the fine will be less than the cost of carrying a decent health insurance plan for a full year.

They can however charge you such an exorbitant amount that it wouldn't be worth it (unless your income level is very low).
Old 03-22-2010, 08:38 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
I am predicting that many people will drop their coverage and opt to pay the fine, then purchase coverage when they get sick.

This legislation eliminated the "insurance" model entirely.

Furthermore, the federal government is mandating the citizens to purchase a service.

lmao no.
Old 03-22-2010, 08:38 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by coalesce View Post
Until you've worked at a bank on the first and third of the month, you have no clue just how broken welfare programs are. Lots of abled bodied men and women abusing the system paid for by the people who work.

People who work hard are gonna have to work harder so those who won't work as hard or at all can benefit from us..

Old 03-22-2010, 08:39 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post


I'm predicting hordes of uninsured people at hospitals and clinics sometime in the very near future.
Why would you predict that? Do you even understand what this bill does? I don't think you should be slinging around
Old 03-22-2010, 08:40 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
lmao no.

I see.
Your clear and concise rebuttal has left me entirely disarmed.

What we're now going to be looking at is a "coverage" model instead of an "insurance" model (which was the case before but to a lesser extent)

I'm sure you can figure out the rationale behind this statement.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:42 AM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvargas24 View Post
I believe the argument here is that since insurance companies now cannot reject you for a pre-existing condition, why not wait until you are sick/injured to buy coverage? I'm guessing the fine will be less than the cost of carrying a decent health insurance plan for a full year.

And you're missing the point. Now there's a fine. Before there wasn't. Why the hell would you pay a premium now when it's still not illegal to not have insurance only to stop paying now that it is illegal.

Health insurance can only become active on the 15th or the 30th of a month so there's no point in waiting till you get sick in the first place (again, why don't people do that now?)
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:47 AM Coqui is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
I see.
Your clear and concise rebuttal has left me entirely disarmed.

What we're now going to be looking at is a "coverage" model instead of an "insurance" model (which was the case before but to a lesser extent)

I'm sure you can figure out the rationale behind this statement.

What stopped them before (you never answered that)
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:47 AM Coqui is offline  
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Amaroth
 
This was a loss for America imho. America needs health reform. No one can argue that. I think few do. We should of taken steps to lower costs without increasing spending because at the current time in our history we can not afford to be spending this much money. If you had opened up insurance across state lines it would of allowed the price of insurance to come down for 5 yrs or so. At least until the new monopoly lines were drawn. Tort reform also would of helped. Also the CBO comes out with an estimate that makes no sense to me. How are we saving money? We spend 940 billion to save 130-140 something billion over 10 years. The next 10 years we save some 1.3 trillion. What are we saving? That math doesn't make sense to me. Then think about how not one government spending project comes in on target.

I will also say this. Take me to jail if I loose my job and don't have health insurance anymore. I'm not paying a fine because I won't pay for some ones health care. It is my choice!!!

The issue with Health Care, Social Security, and any other government program boils down to a simple issue. They can not manage their money. They tax products 2-3 times before we buy them, federal income taxes, taxes on the internet, phone service, cable service, cars, you name it they tax it. There is no excuse why they can't run a balanced budget. Take a page from a state such as Texas. It is state law that they operate and have to maintain a balanced budget.

I'm not college educated. Well I never got my degree at least. I dropped out of High School and got my GED. America doesn't owe me a damn thing. I chose my path. I live with the consequences. I'd rather work 3 jobs than accept welfare! These people who think they are entitled make me sick. I'm lucky I have health care and a job at the moment and I'm thankful for it every day. I worked for it. Nothing in life is free or comes without hard work.

Edit: Just remembered. This is also in the bill. Students now will only get student loans from the government. Niiice!

Last edited by Amaroth; 03-22-2010 at 09:18 AM..
Old 03-22-2010, 09:07 AM Amaroth is offline  
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tanner9072
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaroth View Post
This was a loss for America imho. America needs health reform. No one can argue that. I think few do. We should of taken steps to lower costs without increasing spending because at the current time in our history we can not afford to be spending this much money. If you had opened up insurance across state lines it would of allowed the price of insurance to come down for 5 yrs or so. At least until the new monopoly lines were drawn. Tort reform also would of helped. Also the CBO comes out with an estimate that makes no sense to me. How are we saving money? We spend 940 billion to save 130-140 something billion over 10 years. The next 10 years we save some 1.3 trillion. What are we saving? That math doesn't make sense to me. Then think about how not one government spending project comes in on target.

I will also say this. Take me to jail if I loose my job and don't have health insurance anymore. I'm not paying a fine because I won't pay for some ones health care. It is my choice!!!

The issue with Health Care, Social Security, and any other government program boils down to a simple issue. They can not manage their money. They tax products 2-3 times before we buy them, federal income taxes, taxes on the internet, phone service, cable service, cars, you name it they tax it. There is no excuse why they can't run a balanced budget. Take a page from a state such as Texas. It is state law that they operate and have to maintain a balanced budget.

I'm not college educated. Well I never got my degree at least. I dropped out of High School and got my GED. America doesn't owe me a damn thing. I chose my path. I live with the consequences. I'd rather work 3 jobs than accept welfare! These people who think they are entitled make me sick. I'm lucky I have health care and a job at the moment and I'm thankful for it every day. I worked for it. Nothing in life is free or comes without hard work.

Edit: Just remembered. This is also in the bill. Students now will only get student loans from the government. Niiice!

this.

i love how partisan this country has become. i dont think people even know what they are supporting (or not supporting). instead it has just become about "look what our party has done! we are the better party! dont be a (insert party here) because they didnt do what we did!"

its not even about doing whats best for the country, its just about politicians building up their resumes for the next election.

oh wait, thats what politics has always been.
Old 03-22-2010, 09:30 AM tanner9072 is offline  
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