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ourheartsconviction
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvargas24 View Post
I believe the argument here is that since insurance companies now cannot reject you for a pre-existing condition, why not wait until you are sick/injured to buy coverage? I'm guessing the fine will be less than the cost of carrying a decent health insurance plan for a full year.

2.5% of your yearly income. It's written into the bill.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:47 AM ourheartsconviction is offline  
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s0me0nesmind1
 
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Anyone else just see this as losing more rights? I can see mandatory car insurance - I agree driving is a privellege not a right. But if someone wants to be fat and unhealthy, that is beginning to look illegal or something? But I guess suicide is illegal...

My problem is if you want to advocate healthy people, you can't have both ways. What I mean by that is simply if you want mandatory health insurance, you need to stop promoting unhealthy shit that kills us (and makes taxpayers pay for) such as smoking (Obama durr hurr) and Alcohol (Brain cells amirite?).
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:52 AM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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#32  

ourheartsconviction
 
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This was a loss for America imho. America needs health reform. No one can argue that. I think few do. We should of taken steps to lower costs without increasing spending because at the current time in our history we can not afford to be spending this much money. If you had opened up insurance across state lines it would of allowed the price of insurance to come down for 5 yrs or so. At least until the new monopoly lines were drawn. Tort reform also would of helped. Also the CBO comes out with an estimate that makes no sense to me. How are we saving money? We spend 940 billion to save 130-140 something billion over 10 years. The next 10 years we save some 1.3 trillion. What are we saving? That math doesn't make sense to me. Then think about how not one government spending project comes in on target.

I will also say this. Take me to jail if I loose my job and don't have health insurance anymore. I'm not paying a fine because I won't pay for some ones health care. It is my choice!!!

The issue with Health Care, Social Security, and any other government program boils down to a simple issue. They can not manage their money. They tax products 2-3 times before we buy them, federal income taxes, taxes on the internet, phone service, cable service, cars, you name it they tax it. There is no excuse why they can't run a balanced budget. Take a page from a state such as Texas. It is state law that they operate and have to maintain a balanced budget.

I'm not college educated. Well I never got my degree at least. I dropped out of High School and got my GED. America doesn't owe me a damn thing. I chose my path. I live with the consequences. I'd rather work 3 jobs than accept welfare! These people who think they are entitled make me sick. I'm lucky I have health care and a job at the moment and I'm thankful for it every day. I worked for it. Nothing in life is free or comes without hard work.

Edit: Just remembered. This is also in the bill. Students now will only get student loans from the government. Niiice!

Tort reform = a potential 5% in savings, but republicans failed to coincide with democrats on appropriate reform. Obama opened the door, you have no one to blame.

You sound exactly like a nig hater in 1930. "People who think they're entitled make me sick." You don't think people should have the right to live?
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:53 AM ourheartsconviction is offline  
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#33  

dvargas24
 
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Originally Posted by ourheartsconviction View Post
2.5% of your yearly income. It's written into the bill.


There is also this part to it: shall not exceed the applicable national average premium.

So your fine will be equal to or less than the national average cost of insurance. Therefore, if you are a healthy person and never go to the doctor, it is cheaper to pay the fine (strictly in terms of dollars and cents).

In terms of cost/benefit, it would obviously be better to pay for insurance and get something out of it, but not everyone will share that viewpoint.
Old 03-22-2010, 09:59 AM dvargas24 is offline  
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tanner9072
 
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You don't think people should have the right to live?

no one is taking away people's right to live. and passing healthcare "reform" doesnt ensure that they are going to live forever, either. besides, the medical profession will always be a battle that cant be won. there has never been a doctor/nurse/emt/etc who has prevented death 100% of the time. people will die. people will get sick. whether they have insurance or not.

and forcing people to buy insurance is probably the furthest thing from the solution to the problems of our modern healthcare system.
Old 03-22-2010, 10:02 AM tanner9072 is offline  
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s0me0nesmind1
 
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Originally Posted by tanner9072 View Post
no one is taking away people's right to live. and passing healthcare "reform" doesnt ensure that they are going to live forever, either. besides, the medical profession will always be a battle that cant be won. there has never been a doctor/nurse/emt/etc who has prevented death 100% of the time. people will die. people will get sick. whether they have insurance or not.

and forcing people to buy insurance is probably the furthest thing from the solution to the problems of our modern healthcare system.

Agreed. You kinda take away your own right to live by choosing not to work. or eat. or be productive. or try. or... but don't worry, we have legitimate people to bail you out and consequently fuck ourselves while giving you handjobs err handouts.

The funny thing is you have a right to 'live' but you don't have a right to die.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:05 AM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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#36  

Gibonius
 
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Originally Posted by dvargas24 View Post
In terms of cost/benefit, it would obviously be better to pay for insurance and get something out of it, but not everyone will share that viewpoint.

Yes, some people are stupid. Of course, anyone that can afford insurance and chooses not to carry any is stupid pretty much by default, so there's good overlap there.
Old 03-22-2010, 10:05 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Why would you predict that? Do you even understand what this bill does? I don't think you should be slinging around

I do, however 99% of the people on welfare or other government run programs don't.

They're going to be showing up at hospitals and screaming about how they get free healthcare now.
Old 03-22-2010, 10:06 AM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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#38  

Gibonius
 
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Originally Posted by Amaroth View Post
This was a loss for America imho. America needs health reform. No one can argue that. I think few do. We should of taken steps to lower costs without increasing spending because at the current time in our history we can not afford to be spending this much money. If you had opened up insurance across state lines it would of allowed the price of insurance to come down for 5 yrs or so. At least until the new monopoly lines were drawn.

Competition across state lines already exists, the fact that there are national health insurance companies makes that much obvious. The companies must simply comply with the regulations of the states they're selling into. The insurance industry talking point you're espousing (and that's exactly what it is) asks for companies to be able to dodge the regulations of the state they're selling into, which is a fucking terrible idea. Prices would have gone down, but at a direct cost of reducing coverage and security for everyone.
Old 03-22-2010, 10:08 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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I do, however 99% of the people on welfare or other government run programs don't.

They're going to be showing up at hospitals and screaming about how they get free healthcare now.

Actually I think conservative drones are the only ones who think that this bill equaled free health care.
Old 03-22-2010, 10:09 AM Gibonius is offline  
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#40  

Amaroth
 
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Originally Posted by ourheartsconviction View Post
Tort reform = a potential 5% in savings, but republicans failed to coincide with democrats on appropriate reform. Obama opened the door, you have no one to blame.

You sound exactly like a nig hater in 1930. "People who think they're entitled make me sick." You don't think people should have the right to live?

There is no racism in my comments. I make under 35k a year working in the Landscape business. I do estimating. This health care legislation is targeted to help me. Fine and dandy except its more spending, taxes when there are other ways to do it. This has nothing to do with my politics either. I voted for Kerry because I disliked Bush, and although I voted for Obama. Only two elections I have been old enough to vote in. I didn't think Obama was going to be so left. He campaigned towards the center. Give me a fiscally conservative democrat and i'd be happy. On the issue of blame. I blame no one except both parties. They failed everyone.

And seriously man. The right to live? No where did I say that. I payed for my own health insurance for a year through Blue Cross. I'm still living with a roommate. Live within your means and work your ass off is what I believe in. Sorry to dissapoint you that I'm not a racist or extremist.
Old 03-22-2010, 10:16 AM Amaroth is offline  
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#41  

Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1 View Post
Anyone else just see this as losing more rights? I can see mandatory car insurance - I agree driving is a privellege not a right. But if someone wants to be fat and unhealthy, that is beginning to look illegal or something? But I guess suicide is illegal...

My problem is if you want to advocate healthy people, you can't have both ways. What I mean by that is simply if you want mandatory health insurance, you need to stop promoting unhealthy shit that kills us (and makes taxpayers pay for) such as smoking (Obama durr hurr) and Alcohol (Brain cells amirite?).

How can you see car insurance being mandatory but not health insurance?

Example A. You hit someone with your car doing damage to their car as well as themselves. You are either uninsured or underinsured. Person who got hit gets a slight hike over time because their insurance company has to sink the cost (not just that person but every person who has a policy with them)

Example B. You go to the hospital because you get severely sick/injured. You are either uninsured or underinsured. Everyone else pays higher premiums because the hospital has to sink the cost so they up the rates charged to insurance companies.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:17 AM Coqui is offline  
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#42  

Gibonius
 
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There is no racism in my comments. I make under 35k a year working in the Landscape business. I do estimating. This health care legislation is targeted to help me. Fine and dandy except its more spending, taxes when there are other ways to do it. This has nothing to do with my politics either. I voted for Kerry because I disliked Bush, and although I voted for Obama. Only two elections I have been old enough to vote in. I didn't think Obama was going to be so left. He campaigned towards the center. Give me a fiscally conservative democrat and i'd be happy. On the issue of blame. I blame no one except both parties. They failed everyone.

I have to wonder if you were really paying attention during the campaign, or understood the issues if you were. Obama specifically talked about health care reform, and was directly opposed to the (terrible) idea of interstate competition that you were espousing. McCain was in favor of it. This bill, if anything, is farther to the center than many Democrats would have liked. It has no UHC, no single payer, keep the employer based system, keeps the for-profit provider and insurance industries intact. It's extremely mild, the only real "leftist" portion is the expansion of Medicaid. Most of the meat is added, and greatly needed, regulations.
Old 03-22-2010, 10:57 AM Gibonius is offline  
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teh scud
 
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I look at health care being similar to a police force -- something necessary for a successful modern society. having for-profit health insurance companies is about as stupid as for-profit fire departments, but i'm sure there were nuts screaming about the 'government takeover' of firefighting back then too.

Last edited by teh scud; 03-22-2010 at 11:28 AM..
Old 03-22-2010, 11:10 AM teh scud is offline  
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teh scud
 
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Edit: Just remembered. This is also in the bill. Students now will only get student loans from the government. Niiice!

as opposed to the government giving money to banks so the banks can give out student loans with government money...? do banks have magic dust they sprinkle on the money to make it better or what?
Old 03-22-2010, 11:31 AM teh scud is offline  
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