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Bukkakeboy
 
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Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
I do, however 99% of the people on welfare or other government run programs don't.

They're going to be showing up at hospitals and screaming about how they get free healthcare now.

rofl, spoken like a stupid rightwinger
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:36 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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Regime|Life
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as opposed to the government giving money to banks so the banks can give out student loans with government money...? do banks have magic dust they sprinkle on the money to make it better or what?

Getting money from the federal government is almost always better than getting it from a national bank, take a look what Canada does.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:42 AM Regime|Life is offline  
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Originally Posted by wwilliam54 View Post
This bill helps to address one of the causes of the economy being in the shitter.

I could address the issue of rape by raping someone. Doesn't mean addressing it in the matter it is being addressed the right way. Does it need to be fixed? Sure. But regarding the lies fed to us so far by the liberal congress (to include the white house), what reason do we have to believe that all of these "promises" will turn out any differently?
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:44 AM mofugger is offline  
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Regime|Life
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I could address the issue of rape by raping someone. Doesn't mean addressing it in the matter it is being addressed the right way. Does it need to be fixed? Sure. But regarding the lies fed to us so far by the liberal congress (to include the white house), what reason do we have to believe that all of these "promises" will turn out any differently?

Do you think the CBO is lying with its estimated deficit cut as well?
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:49 AM Regime|Life is offline  
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What stopped them before (you never answered that)

Before, an insurance agency could decline your business if you had a pre-existing condition.

This is the basis of the insurance model: that you pay a regular (comparably) small amount to offset a unexpected catastrophic cost.

Considering the fine is capped and often less than the cost of coverage; it stands to reason that many will not carry the cost of insurance when they can simply add it as needed.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:53 AM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Do you think the CBO is lying with its estimated deficit cut as well?

They aren't lying. Unfortunately it won't come in on target. Its hard enough to make budgets on projects in the private sector.
Old 03-22-2010, 11:56 AM Amaroth is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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Do you think the CBO is lying with its estimated deficit cut as well?

Excepting that the deficit cut is related to the immediate tax revenues versus delayed expenditures
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:59 AM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
Before, an insurance agency could decline your business if you had a pre-existing condition.

This is the basis of the insurance model: that you pay a regular (comparably) small amount to offset a unexpected catastrophic cost.

Considering the fine is capped and often less than the cost of coverage; it stands to reason that many will not carry the cost of insurance when they can simply add it as needed.

I have no pre-existing conditions currently. I pay a premium as a just in case. (since all I go to the doctor for is preventative care) I'm asking what's to stop me from not paying for insurance now? I don't need it now. Even under the new plan, I'd still have to wait for the quotes, etc. before they give me insurance. This won't be like auto insurance where you get a card over the Internet instantly. So waiting until I need it is moot in both situations (pre and post health care reform)

So why will no pre-existing condition clause change that now?
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:12 PM Coqui is offline  
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Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
I have no pre-existing conditions currently. I pay a premium as a just in case. (since all I go to the doctor for is preventative care) I'm asking what's to stop me from not paying for insurance now? I don't need it now. Even under the new plan, I'd still have to wait for the quotes, etc. before they give me insurance. This won't be like auto insurance where you get a card over the Internet instantly. So waiting until I need it is moot in both situations (pre and post health care reform)

So why will no pre-existing condition clause change that now?

No it's not moot.
You could *choose* not to carry insurance.
However, in the previous system if you discovered you had cancer and insurance company could decline to cover you.

Now if you go without insurance and discover you have cancer an insurance company is required to offer you a plan.

Do you see the predicament?
The insurance model lets them float the cost of disbursements on the income from the healthy; just like fire insurance floats the cost of fires on people whose houses haven't burned down.

Instead, people can opt to pay a fine rather than carry and the money does not go to the insurance companies to pay for claims.

Really, is the insurance model that difficult to understand? Seems conceptually simple to me.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:20 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
I have no pre-existing conditions currently. I pay a premium as a just in case. (since all I go to the doctor for is preventative care) I'm asking what's to stop me from not paying for insurance now? I don't need it now. Even under the new plan, I'd still have to wait for the quotes, etc. before they give me insurance. This won't be like auto insurance where you get a card over the Internet instantly. So waiting until I need it is moot in both situations (pre and post health care reform)

So why will no pre-existing condition clause change that now?

Because if you're diagnosed with cancer now and given an expected year to live, you then have enough time to get insured and get treated. Before you couldn't even get insured.
Old 03-22-2010, 12:21 PM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Originally Posted by Bukkakeboy View Post
rofl, spoken like a stupid rightwinger

I'm hardly a right-winger, but if you think that people living in shacks in Detroit and South Los Angeles understand this bill and the fact that they don't get free health care whenever they want, then you're the
Old 03-22-2010, 12:25 PM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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mofugger
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Originally Posted by Regime|Life View Post
Do you think the CBO is lying with its estimated deficit cut as well?

What reason does anyone have to trust those in Washington? When people such as Pelosi utters things like "We need to pass the bill, so we can see what's in it" I have a hard time trusting those who would align themselves with such people.

If it can cut the deficit, awesome, but I'll believe it when I see it.


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Old 03-22-2010, 12:27 PM mofugger is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
No it's not moot.
You could *choose* not to carry insurance.
However, in the previous system if you discovered you had cancer and insurance company could decline to cover you.

Now if you go without insurance and discover you have cancer an insurance company is required to offer you a plan.

Do you see the predicament?
The insurance model lets them float the cost of disbursements on the income from the healthy; just like fire insurance floats the cost of fires on people whose houses haven't burned down.

Instead, people can opt to pay a fine rather than carry and the money does not go to the insurance companies to pay for claims.

Really, is the insurance model that difficult to understand? Seems conceptually simple to me.

Except you wouldn't be diagnosed with cancer until you had insurance in the first place. They can decline to help you with a scan. It's not life threatening. So before all this, you could still get insurance seeing as cancer was never a pre-existing condition.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:27 PM Coqui is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
Because if you're diagnosed with cancer now and given an expected year to live, you then have enough time to get insured and get treated. Before you couldn't even get insured.

Two people with the exact same hypothetical situation? How much has Fox News been talking about cancer as an example of a failing system getting voted in?
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:28 PM Coqui is offline  
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Coqui
 
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I'm hardly a right-winger, but if you think that people living in shacks in Detroit and South Los Angeles understand this bill and the fact that they don't get free health care whenever they want, then you're the

Only Republicans and right wingers have been calling this socialized health care. No one else really thought that.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:29 PM Coqui is offline  
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