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Quote:
Originally Posted by De7|ro|i7 View Post
Come on. Only a dumb ass would believe he literally meant tip over physically.

Tom, are you involved in the new jersey walmart suit as well?

Fucking 2ks


Old 04-02-2010, 12:53 PM Gandalf is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by De7|ro|i7 View Post
Come on. Only a dumb ass would believe he literally meant tip over physically.

Tom, are you involved in the new jersey walmart suit as well?

Fucking 2ks
He even used hand motions to simulate something turning over..
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:33 PM joemama is offline  
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Honestly, I'd like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt here, since a bunch of politicians are rather smart people with law degrees, but I really can't see what else he was talking about. I can't even see him talking about the island sociologically capsizing into riots because he never brought up the culture or demographics of the people.
Old 04-02-2010, 02:08 PM Frenetic is offline  
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Honestly, I'd like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt here, since a bunch of politicians are rather smart people with law degrees, but I really can't see what else he was talking about. I can't even see him talking about the island sociologically capsizing into riots because he never brought up the culture or demographics of the people.

Even smart people become idiotic in some aspects of knowledge. The difference is, some of them are willing to remain silent when it comes to things they don't know.
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Old 04-02-2010, 02:09 PM Coqui is offline  
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I think we need Frocks opinion on this.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:03 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by De7|ro|i7 View Post
Come on. Only a dumb ass would believe he literally meant tip over physically.

Tom, are you involved in the new jersey walmart suit as well?

Fucking 2ks

In response:

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Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
There's no way, in the context he delivered, that it could be construed as metaphorical.

Thanks for coming out.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:23 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenetic View Post
Honestly, I'd like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt here, since a bunch of politicians are rather smart people with law degrees, but I really can't see what else he was talking about. I can't even see him talking about the island sociologically capsizing into riots because he never brought up the culture or demographics of the people.

Have you ever set foot in a university? Law degree or no law degree, I've seen hundreds of people sounding off on issues they don't know the first thing about and making fools of themselves. You don't have to be "smart" necessarily to get a law degree. You have to be good at playing the school game and, in the case of law, have a really fucking good memory. I have a bachelors degree in mechanical engineering, and a good portion of my graduating class are horrible engineers. Many got by because they had a good study and support group, many got by because they had friends who were elite students and took over on projects.

Outside of my faculty, the number of retards I saw on a daily basis protesting whatever cause the left considered an injustice that week was mind boggling, particularly when confronting them with questions left me with blank stares and/or incorrect/misguided information.

Honestly, I think people who recognize they can bypass school, appretice for a decent trade, and make 3 times the money are smarter than most of the folks in "academia".

Besides, look at all the stupid shit President Bush said that everyone used to rag on him for, and he's an Ivy Leaguer.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:27 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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He even used hand motions to simulate something turning over..

Not only that, he went into detail about the dimensions of the island. If he were worried about strictly environmental concerns, the length and width and the size in square miles wouldn't have a whole lot to do with it, unless the island were actually floating which he apparantly thinks it is. Secondly, he didn't clarify his "metaphor", which obviously everyone's interpreted as strictly retarded rambling.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:29 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:35 PM chuckybob is offline  
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
Have you ever set foot in a university? Law degree or no law degree, I've seen hundreds of people sounding off on issues they don't know the first thing about and making fools of themselves. You don't have to be "smart" necessarily to get a law degree. You have to be good at playing the school game and, in the case of law, have a really fucking good memory. I have a bachelors degree in mechanical engineering, and a good portion of my graduating class are horrible engineers. Many got by because they had a good study and support group, many got by because they had friends who were elite students and took over on projects.

Is your tone really needed, here? Up until last year I was a TA and graduate-level tutor in a state university, so yeah, I've been to college. I plan on teaching college-level rhetoric and composition next year.

I didn't say having a law degree suddenly makes you a smart, worldly person, but you're really generalizing if you think a law student is all about memorizing tort law and kissing professors' asses. It involves a lot of critical thinking and interpreting laws to meet society's needs without deriding the system in place. It's pretty far and away from something like a communications degree. And keep in mind I said "smart people with law degrees." Being smart is certainly prevalent, but I'm not saying the two are necessarily interconnected. Hell, I'm in agreement with you over Hank Johnson here.

And I don't really get your last two sentences there. Are you saying they're bad students because they didn't have natural talent so they had to pool their resources together and study with one another? What's wrong with that? It seemed like they were learning really good group skills that would assist them later in life. And if they let some other student do all the work for them, then they'll suffer later on in life when they can't back up what's on the degree.

Quote:
Outside of my faculty, the number of retards I saw on a daily basis protesting whatever cause the left considered an injustice that week was mind boggling, particularly when confronting them with questions left me with blank stares and/or incorrect/misguided information.

Honestly, I think people who recognize they can bypass school, appretice for a decent trade, and make 3 times the money are smarter than most of the folks in "academia".

Besides, look at all the stupid shit President Bush said that everyone used to rag on him for, and he's an Ivy Leaguer.
Why rant about this stuff here? If you want to rip into higher academia, then make a thread about it. Nice generalization about the people trying to better their lives by getting a degree, though.
Old 04-02-2010, 07:44 PM Frenetic is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenetic View Post
Is your tone really needed, here?

Sorry mom.

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Originally Posted by Frenetic View Post
Up until last year I was a TA and graduate-level tutor in a state university, so yeah, I've been to college. I plan on teaching college-level rhetoric and composition next year.

I didn't say having a law degree suddenly makes you a smart, worldly person, but you're really generalizing if you think a law student is all about memorizing tort law and kissing professors' asses. It involves a lot of critical thinking and interpreting laws to meet society's needs without deriding the system in place. It's pretty far and away from something like a communications degree. And keep in mind I said "smart people with law degrees." Being smart is certainly prevalent, but I'm not saying the two are necessarily interconnected. Hell, I'm in agreement with you over Hank Johnson here.

And I don't really get your last two sentences there. Are you saying they're bad students because they didn't have natural talent so they had to pool their resources together and study with one another? What's wrong with that? It seemed like they were learning really good group skills that would assist them later in life. And if they let some other student do all the work for them, then they'll suffer later on in life when they can't back up what's on the degree.

Ok you completely misinterpreted what I was getting at, and when I read it again, I can see why you thought I was simply generalizing. I didn't saw it didn't take intelligence to earn a law degree. I didn't say everyone who studies at university is a complete dumbass. What I did say is having a degree does not necessarily mean you're intelligent. Some folks might be really fucking good at one particular thing, but have zero street smarts, and in reality, little "critical thinking" skills beyond their textbooks/academia. Note I said SOME, and not all. I saw shitloads of people at university who would debate issues without the first fucking clue about them, and yet this was supposed to be in a place where ideas are exchanged freely and students are trained to have a methodical approach to these things that is clearly not being followed.

A lot of people say things like "well he has a degree, he has to be smart". My point is that having a degree does not necessarily mean you're the cream of the crop; some people are just good at academics. They're not necessarily good at applying said skills in the real world. Case in point, in Canada one of our federal leaders used to teach at Harvard. He was touted as king shit of turd mountain when he came back from the States to lead the Liberal party a couple years ago. Since then, he's almost never taken a definite position on anything, and has proven to be a poor leader to the point that some people are blaming him for their awful showing as of late. But guess what, he's a Harvard elite, so he's "smart". The Premier of my province during the late 80s and early 90s was a Rhodes Scholar. He's "smart". He also almost bankrupted the province to the point civil servants were actually forced to take a week of unpaid leave every year to save money, and upon his exit his party dropped from a majority to getting such little support that they eventually lost official party status. He's "educated" though, he's a Rhodes Scholar afterall, which makes him "elite". See what I'm getting at? Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as overly generalizing and sound like I'm saying the average college student is a complete dumbass, and I certainly didn't want to convey I think law school students don't have to be smart/have any talent. I don't actually believe that, but enough of them did make me roll my eyes on a daily basis to confidently say a degree is not enough to declare intelligence. Also, you would be right in saying we should expect people who have earned a law degree to be intelligent and competent.

As for the students I was talking about that I personally knew, it wasn't about "working with collegues" to get the job done, it was about using them to springboard ahead without any real applied effort and demonstration of any applied engineering skill. Will it hurt them in the real world? Depends where they work. You'd be surprised what the "real world" can look like in some cases.

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Why rant about this stuff here? If you want to rip into higher academia, then make a thread about it. Nice generalization about the people trying to better their lives by getting a degree, though.

I brought it up because I hate when people say "well he's gotta be smart, he has a degree". There's more to intelligence than just academia and book smarts. You have to be able to apply knowledge competently. Simply having a degree doesn't make you smart, that's all I wanted to convey.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:09 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Yeah upon reading that again, I guess I got a bit carried away trying to prove a point and I can see where you got that impression.
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:43 AM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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I see what you're saying. I've found people saying things they don't understand on college grounds as well, as well as people just phoning it in on their degrees, so I can relate. But I've also seen the system really turn people's lives around and make them see the world with a much more critical, open-minded edge. Sometimes I've been lucky enough to assist in that progression, so I'll admit I have a certain expectation on what college should do for people, and why I'm pretty disappointed by this Johnson guy. I don't care if he was a literature major, his degree should give him the knowledge to not say the he did in the video.

And though you might find me elitist for saying so, yeah, a person SHOULD be considered at least smarter for putting in the time and effort of getting a degree. The point of a liberal arts education isn't to turn people into know-it-all hippies, but to give people a wide array of knowledge to draw on, critical thinking skills, and to be an aware, active citizen in this country. That's regardless of what someone majors in, be it computer science or philosophy. I know the bad eggs of academia can seem very vivid in our minds, but the good students silently benefit and move on to their chosen profession. The tenets of university excellence are still there, but people can still slip through the cracks by family connections or by other technicalities. It's just like anything else in life.

I absolutely agree there's more to intelligence to just reading textbooks and acing exams. And some of the smartest guys I know are rednecks from my hometown, so don't think I'm bashing people with trades, here. I just believe college can guide people along in a more efficient and guided manner than if they were self-taught in whatever they wanted to learn.

Finally, I have to say some parts of your posts were tough to read because you do make good points about a degree sometimes not meaning much about a person's skills in life. All I can say to that is even though I and other faculty members back the system in place, we are aware of the problems of students not being challenged enough and are working every year to reverse that trend. My own thesis is based on trying to make students interact with each other in a more critical, over-arching, manner when trading essays and revising. It's tough to overcome the inertia that's in many colleges, but I hate dealing with the dumbasses as much as you do.
Old 04-03-2010, 12:44 AM Frenetic is offline  
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lol politicians being stupid and/or ignorant? shock and awed, i am.
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:03 AM ApathyEcstasy is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenetic View Post
I see what you're saying. I've found people saying things they don't understand on college grounds as well, as well as people just phoning it in on their degrees, so I can relate. But I've also seen the system really turn people's lives around and make them see the world with a much more critical, open-minded edge. Sometimes I've been lucky enough to assist in that progression, so I'll admit I have a certain expectation on what college should do for people, and why I'm pretty disappointed by this Johnson guy. I don't care if he was a literature major, his degree should give him the knowledge to not say the he did in the video.

And though you might find me elitist for saying so, yeah, a person SHOULD be considered at least smarter for putting in the time and effort of getting a degree. The point of a liberal arts education isn't to turn people into know-it-all hippies, but to give people a wide array of knowledge to draw on, critical thinking skills, and to be an aware, active citizen in this country. That's regardless of what someone majors in, be it computer science or philosophy. I know the bad eggs of academia can seem very vivid in our minds, but the good students silently benefit and move on to their chosen profession. The tenets of university excellence are still there, but people can still slip through the cracks by family connections or by other technicalities. It's just like anything else in life.

Oh absolutely, and I think by and large, most people who successfully complete university can be considered "intelligent". At the same time though, a lot of days walking through the halls of university would leave me in awe as to how narrow minded and tunnel visioned a lot of the "free thinking" and "enlightened" individuals were, particularly the professors in some cases, who cling to philosophies of idealism that are not realistic and either wont work in the real world, or have been proven to fail.

One interesting case I'd like to note, and it does happen more than once, is student protests. Those always produce comical results for reasons I already stated. In this particular case, a friend of mine who's studying at the University of Toronto and York University (doing courses at both) decided to attend a student protest one day on an issue she had some interest in just to see how it would go. She said it was an incredibly pathetic spectacle. The protest organizers essentially directed everyone to do this, that, and the other thing, and really regulated and coreographed everything. I mean, where's all that stuff we're supposed to be taught in the classroom? Where's the free thinking, the exchange of ideas, the expression of oneself? Nope, it's not there. Instead, these "enlightened academics" were simply sheep, following another group of folks who I can only assume they perceived as even more enlightened. The whole thing was just silly. I wish that was unusual, but it isn't. I see it ALL the time! That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's like the guy who gets 95% in all his courses, forgets all the material the next semester, and then can't apply anything. Hank Johnson seems to be one of those guys. Yeah, he might be able to interpret American law, but give him a map and he'll scratch his head.

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I absolutely agree there's more to intelligence to just reading textbooks and acing exams. And some of the smartest guys I know are rednecks from my hometown, so don't think I'm bashing people with trades, here. I just believe college can guide people along in a more efficient and guided manner than if they were self-taught in whatever they wanted to learn.

Oh College absolutely CAN do that, for sure, and it should! People who take it seriously will definitely glean a lot and make really great contributions to our culture and public policy. On the other end of the gun, you have the crew that's just there to get drunk and attending university simply because it was the "next step". Sure, they might earn a degree, but to be honest I'd much rather have a dude who works hard with some real skills making decisions even if they never attended.

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Finally, I have to say some parts of your posts were tough to read because you do make good points about a degree sometimes not meaning much about a person's skills in life. All I can say to that is even though I and other faculty members back the system in place, we are aware of the problems of students not being challenged enough and are working every year to reverse that trend. My own thesis is based on trying to make students interact with each other in a more critical, over-arching, manner when trading essays and revising. It's tough to overcome the inertia that's in many colleges, but I hate dealing with the dumbasses as much as you do.

Very fair. I think we see more eye to eye than we initially realized . Like I said, I did go a little bit overboard, and my intention wasn't to put everyone down. I'm a university graduate myself. I think I overreacted when I read what I thought was basically saying "he should be smart because he has a degree". In reality, what you said was true, he really should be, but like I said, there are more than enough people with degrees that are less than brilliant.

What are you studying for your post-graduate program?
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:09 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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