General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Runding
 
Runding's Avatar
 
Arizona's Illegal Immigration Bill

I've been really surprised to see that this hasn't been discussed yet in the Pit, so I'll open this can of worms up.

I'm a resident of Arizona, so I feel at the forefront of the battle within the states about this issue. For those who don't know what is going on, the Governor of the state, Jan Brewer, signed a bill that is being considered as racist and unconstitutional. The main controversy stems from this section of the bill:
Quote:
Unlawful Stopping and Solicitation of Work

18. Specifies that it is unlawful, if a motor vehicle is stopped on a street, roadway or highway and blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic:

a) for a motor vehicle occupant to attempt to hire or hire and pick up passengers for work at a different location;

b) for a person to enter the motor vehicle in order to be hired by a motor vehicle occupant and to be transported to work at a different location.

19. Stipulates that it is unlawful for a person who is unlawfully present in the U.S. and who is an unauthorized alien to knowingly apply for work, solicit work in a public place or perform work as an employee or independent contractor in Arizona.

20. Classifies these offenses as class 1 misdemeanors.

21. Defines solicit and unauthorized alien.

Unlawful Transporting

22. Specifies that it is unlawful for a person to do or attempt to do the following if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien has come to, has entered or remains in the U.S. in violation of law:

a) transport or move an alien in Arizona in a means of transportation;

b) conceal, harbor or shield an alien from detection in any place in Arizona, including any building or means of transportation."
Essentially, a police officer would have the ability to ask someone if they are a US citizen or not. If they cannot prove their citizenship, the officer has the ability to arrest the alien, and then further procedures would be followed such as deportation.

To me, the bill is really in need of a few changes to be considered "decent". I have many friends who are citizens, yet are of hispanic origins, so their inability to present an ID card to an officer at any given point could have them thrown in jail, etc. etc. Although it already happens, racial profiling will most probably increase, and the finances required for this extra enforcement really aren't anywhere to be found.

Although the bill is terrible, I find it a GREAT thing that it passed, and here is my reasoning. In the past years, immigration has always been almost a philosophical and theoretical topic of discussion. Everyone wants to hear their President-Elect's stance on immigration, yet very little is done to actually do something about it. This bill is raising awareness of the federal government's responsiblity to protect our borders, rather than sitting on their thumbs like they have been doing. The bill is already being challenged by other lawmakers, groups are threatening suits as well, and it might even be repealed before it can be enacted. This would be great, as the national discussion for immigration policies would open up and be something that would (hopefully) get done.

So there it is, I think it's a good thing the bill was passed -- as long as it gets repealed and national discussion ensues to find a better solution.

To Genmayers:

What do you think of Arizona's new bill?

What do you think the federal government should do in terms of immigration?

I'll be responding to the second question in a while, but for now I have to run to class. I'll also discuss some of the ridiculous people that have decided to boycott Arizona businesses, because they're idiots.

Discuss!
__________________
aa1ce3c1c9744c586fa4d28e62ff485b
Old 04-27-2010, 04:10 PM Runding is offline  
Reply With Quote
#1  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

Forever Domon
 
Forever Domon's Avatar
 
Seems like part 19 just re-iterates whats already law. You cant legally work here unless you're on a green card or h based visa. Thats federal.
Old 04-27-2010, 04:35 PM Forever Domon is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
I agree with the part you mentioned about the bill. Day Laborers are almost always illegal nowadays.

The part I have issues with is Article 8 Section B

Quote:
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
This basically says, I will be stopped anytime I go to Arizona.

The rest of the bill I agree with 100%
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 04-28-2010, 05:55 AM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#3  

CommiePunk
my rectum bleeds everyday
 
CommiePunk's Avatar
 
it's great, the state wants to do something becuase the feds refuse to do anything.
Old 04-28-2010, 06:13 AM CommiePunk is offline  
Reply With Quote
#4  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommiePunk View Post
it's great, the state wants to do something becuase the feds refuse to do anything.

The issue though, is that this bill will be solely directed to Hispanics. It doesn't matter if it's the majority or not. To single out a specific group is racial profiling.
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 04-28-2010, 06:25 AM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#5  

Electrikfuzz050
 
Electrikfuzz050's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
The issue though, is that this bill will be solely directed to Hispanics. It doesn't matter if it's the majority or not. To single out a specific group is racial profiling.


It says nothing about people of Hispanic origin in the bill. What you're talking about is enforcement of the law, and that comes down to human judgement and bias. Not much to be done about that.
Old 04-28-2010, 06:47 AM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#6  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
It says nothing about people of Hispanic origin in the bill. What you're talking about is enforcement of the law, and that comes down to human judgement and bias. Not much to be done about that.

I know the law doesn't explicitly state this. However, that human judgement (which included the intention of making this law) is biased towards Hispanics.

Because you can be damn sure, even those there's a recent high influx of them, that Canadians will not be stopped or even questioned.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d...ns-in-arizona/

I don't think anyone should be questioned or detained unless there's a real reason to. I'm not going to wear a star on my shirt to signify that I'm a Hispanic with American citizenship just to be left alone.
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 04-28-2010, 06:59 AM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#7  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
Total population of Hispanics in Arizona - 1,785,737
Total population of Canadians in Arizona - 5,130,632
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 04-28-2010, 07:05 AM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#8  

matt00926
baaaaaa
 
matt00926's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
It says nothing about people of Hispanic origin in the bill. What you're talking about is enforcement of the law, and that comes down to human judgement and bias. Not much to be done about that.

Except enabling it and creating "lawful" excuses and encouragement for such behavior
__________________
cd09d75f80807fd8baa143b39fa895eb [pornmay.com]
Old 04-28-2010, 07:11 AM matt00926 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#9  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt00926 View Post
Except enabling it and creating "lawful" excuses and encouragement for such behavior

Lawful contact could be construed simply as police coming up to people to talk in a friendly manner only to ask for papers later when the person has an accent.
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 04-28-2010, 07:14 AM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#10  

Gibonius
 
The problem stems from giving the police officer complete discretion in choosing what constitutes "reasonable suspicion." Cops hear people speaking Spanish, says he heard them talking about "back home in Mexico", he gets to say he has reasonable suspicion and can ask for papers. People in the US have a long standing tradition of not having to carry or provide ID just walking around, this undoes that. Not just for Hispanics either, anyone could be targeted and harassed for ID as long as the cop is creative.

Of course the real result will just be cops hassling Hispanics.
Old 04-28-2010, 07:57 AM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#11  

CommiePunk
my rectum bleeds everyday
 
CommiePunk's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
The issue though, is that this bill will be solely directed to Hispanics. It doesn't matter if it's the majority or not. To single out a specific group is racial profiling.

they can look for illegal canadians, norweigans and chinese people too. however, that wouldn't matter much there because on the MEXICAN border there are tons of illegal MEXICANS.
Old 04-28-2010, 08:01 AM CommiePunk is offline  
Reply With Quote
#12  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommiePunk View Post
they can look for illegal canadians, norweigans and chinese people too. however, that wouldn't matter much there because on the MEXICAN border there are tons of illegal MEXICANS.

And only Mexicans come into the US from the Mexican border right?

And since you don't read posts, I'll try to re-iterate it enough times until you finally grasp it.

There is a high influx of Canadians in Arizona.

And you're still missing the point. Thousands of US Citizens as well as legal immigrants will be forced to carry ID at all times now. Whether or not it's smart to do that anyways is irrelevant. If you're Hispanic, you now are forced to do it in Arizona. Other immigrants as well as natural born US citizens won't have to. To assume that the color of your skin won't play a factor in this is ludicrous.
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 04-28-2010, 08:13 AM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#13  

topcat989
 
topcat989's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
The issue though, is that this bill will be solely directed to Hispanics. It doesn't matter if it's the majority or not. To single out a specific group is racial profiling.

If the mass majority of people in this country are of hispanic "race" (and you're fucking ting yourself if you say NO THEY AIN'TS ) then racial profiling is a reasonable tool to use to enforce the law. I'm right in the middle of WE ILLEGALS! land, and it's preety easy to quess the illegal 99 times out of a 100. You could do the illegals version of foxworthy's "you might be a redneck if...." routine.

If you see a 30yr or older hispanic riding a bike in work clothes......he might be an illegal

If you see a hispanic hang out with other hispanics at the home depot parking lot......he might be an illegal....and the percentages go up from 99.99345% to 100% when there's 40 fucking bikes chained to the trees around the hispanics

If you get wrecked by a hispanic and they "hit &run" ......they might be an illegal

If you hear a hispanic speak spanish but cannot speak english......he might be an illegal

If you see hispanics in medical facilities that need to be spoken to in spanish by bi-lingual medical staff......he might be an illegal

If a hispanic is a member of MS-13, Mexican mafia, or the norentanous or surenous gangs......he might be an illegal

If he marches in the street waving a mexican flag on the 4th of july......he might be an illegal

and a thousand other "indicators".
Old 04-28-2010, 08:19 AM topcat989 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#14  

Coqui
 
Coqui's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by topcat989 View Post
If the mass majority of people in this country are of hispanic "race" (and you're fucking ting yourself if you say NO THEY AIN'TS ) then racial profiling is a reasonable tool to use to enforce the law. I'm right in the middle of WE ILLEGALS! land, and it's preety easy to quess the illegal 99 times out of a 100. You could do the illegals version of foxworthy's "you might be a redneck if...." routine.

If you see a 30yr or older hispanic riding a bike in work clothes......he might be an illegal

If you see a hispanic hang out with other hispanics at the home depot parking lot......he might be an illegal....and the percentages go up from 99.99345% to 100% when there's 40 fucking bikes chained to the trees around the hispanics

If you get wrecked by a hispanic and they "hit &run" ......they might be an illegal

If you hear a hispanic speak spanish but cannot speak english......he might be an illegal

If you see hispanics in medical facilities that need to be spoken to in spanish by bi-lingual medical staff......he might be an illegal

If a hispanic is a member of MS-13, Mexican mafia, or the norentanous or surenous gangs......he might be an illegal

If he marches in the street waving a mexican flag on the 4th of july......he might be an illegal

and a thousand other "indicators".

What if this person does all this but is Puerto Rican?
__________________
I lack boobs and have a penis
Old 04-28-2010, 08:26 AM Coqui is offline  
Reply With Quote
#15  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:15 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.