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Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
The state passed a law empowering their executive branch to commit action on those falling under some federal designation.

It's akin to states giving treatment to congressional medal of honor holders.
The title is conferred by the federal government but there's no law prohibiting the states from granting recipients privileges like special license plates.

That's a terrible analogy. Handing out a license plate is not the same as usurping federal authority.

There are powers that are reserved to the states, there are powers that are reserve to the federal government. A state enforcing immigration law is no different than a state engaging in diplomatic relationships with a foreign power (like that idiot from South Carolina that talked about trading oil with Venezuela), it violates the constitution.
Old 04-29-2010, 03:31 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
That's a terrible analogy. Handing out a license plate is not the same as usurping federal authority.

There are powers that are reserved to the states, there are powers that are reserve to the federal government. A state enforcing immigration law is no different than a state engaging in diplomatic relationships with a foreign power (like that idiot from South Carolina that talked about trading oil with Venezuela), it violates the constitution.

The state is enacting actions based on a federal label.

Don't like my MOH analogy?
Here's another one! People can be labeled sex offenders in a federal registry; and states have special laws and circumstances for individuals under that label despite the fact that those individuals have never been convicted of any crimes in that state.
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Old 04-29-2010, 03:37 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
I have mine in my wallet, and I have my wallet with me at all times, so pretty well constantly. If an officer wants to see it, I show it to him.

As for immigrants, they're required by US law to carry documentation with them as proof of citizenship to my knowledge. I understand your concern that US citizens, who don't have to, might get accosted now, but I have two questions for you regarding that. 1) Do you think Arizona cops are all racist just itching for an excuse to deport Mexican descendent US citizens? 2) Do you know anyone older than 15 who doesn't, at the very least, carry their driver's license with them? Or anything else in their wallets they have with them pretty well all the time?
Funny you should ask, but I usually have my license in the center console of my car. Since I haven't written checks in years, and rarely use a credit card for purchases at B&M stores...I don't feel the need to have it on my person at all times. It does say DRIVERS license on it...and I can't really drive without a car.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:33 PM joemama is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Funny you should ask, but I usually have my license in the center console of my car. Since I haven't written checks in years, and rarely use a credit card for purchases at B&M stores...I don't feel the need to have it on my person at all times. It does say DRIVERS license on it...and I can't really drive without a car.

This stems from Americans' making "Driver's License" synonymous with "ID"
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:36 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
I have an open question to all Americans on this board. What gives with people not wanting any enforcement of your country's immigration laws? It seems people almost WANT people there illegally, or is that just a ruse so they can convince us they're the epitome of not being racist? I don't understand.

Why would I care if illegals are here or not? I don't understand why it matters in the least. The large majority of studies show that illegals, and even legal immigrants, do not harm communities. In many communities there's actually a small positive gain. It's not that I _want_ illegals here, I just don't care if they are, and I think it's stupid to forcefully remove them if they aren't harmful.

At the end of the day, people are just people. To me, borders are arbitrary, citizenship or not isn't important, and if you're causing others no real harm, then I don't really care what you do.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:44 PM matt00926 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
But the point of the law is they can't just walk up to you and demand ID. You have to be involved in a legal issue before the cops can do that, according to what I've seen. If that's the case, what's the issue?

It's up to interpretation currently.
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:41 PM Coqui is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
I know my SSN by heart so I don't have to carry my card. I do carry my birth certificate. SSN or not, if someone got a hold of my wallet, with my driver's license, health card, and birth certificate, they wont need my SSN to steal my identity. Identity theft is not that difficult, unfortunately.

1) How does it make your life a living hell? Are you thinking you'll be accosted on a daily basis while not being in the commission of illegal activities? I don't consider that particularly likely.

2) Any immigrant in the United States has to have documentation proving they're legal in the first place. If you're a natural citizen of the United States, your license will be sufficient to not raise any red flags when the officers process it, likely using their computer in their cruiser meaning you'll be on your way in a few minutes without requiring them to detain you, again, assuming they're just going to stop you for buying ice cream, which is not going to happen.

Knowing your SSN won't be good enough for the police. And our Birth certificates are much larger than a card.

1)Until you've experience racism, I don't think you realize just how often it happens.
2) Again license doesnotguarantee legal citizenship. Also holding me while they check my license IS detaining me.
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:44 PM Coqui is offline  
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
I can't answer that because I havn't read the entire bill yet.

Interestingly enough, I guarantee you the lawmakers complaining about it havn't either, because congressmen often don't.

The bill isn't that long. Took me 12 minutes to read
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:46 PM Coqui is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
I have an open question to all Americans on this board. What gives with people not wanting any enforcement of your country's immigration laws? It seems people almost WANT people there illegally, or is that just a ruse so they can convince us they're the epitome of not being racist? I don't understand.

I want enforcement. I just don't want to be singled out because of the color of my skin. As I've said, if we can guarantee, this will only be checked when they've been detained for a different reason, then it's fine. But as of right nw, the bill doesn't guarantee this.
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:48 PM Coqui is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
Arizona is a border state with a country known for having a large number of illegal immigrants in exodus. If you are honestly going to sit here and say the illegal immigration population in Arizona is anything less than like 95% than you have to be on glue.

And no, your analogy is silly. Police have not been ordered with this new law to focus on a single ethnic group. They're obviously going to make the assumption that Latinos will be the focus because the illegal immigrant population in Arizona is, by vast majority, Latino, but there is nothing in the law that says they will be the only target. If you're going to respond by saying they will make the assumption because most are Latino, than you've weakened your own suggestion that I'm delusional. If I'm so delusional, why are you so concerned about singling out Latinos? Because there's a lot of German illegals in Arizona, too?

Don't you understand? If you have a law that 96% of the people breaking it are from one ethnic group, if you enforce that law you are discriminating against them.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:35 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#145  

wwilliam54
 
its just another bit of racism bubbleing up from Americas asscrack.

While the vast majority of the country does not outright hate blacks or messicans. They do believe that they should know there place beneath the white mans feet.
The rising number of Hispanics and the election of Obama have brought this out in full force.
Because it a fear of losing dominance rather than just regular hate, most believe that they are not being racist, but in fact they still are.
We are nation of immigrants, we should welcome all just as we always have. They are the secret to our greatness after all.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:41 PM wwilliam54 is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
The states have no right to enforce federal laws according to the Constitution. Quite the opposite in fact. If you care about the constitutional balance of powers, this should bother you. If you're just a "Zomg federal government bad" type, you should just fuck right off.

bzzzzt. wrong answer.

Reason one. I believe States are required to UPHOLD federal law. yeah the would include enforcement.

Reason two, if they overstep and tread on federal powers by a mouseprint it's more than offset by the heard of elephant tracks the feds have left on state powers.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:46 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
I want enforcement. I just don't want to be singled out because of the color of my skin. As I've said, if we can guarantee, this will only be checked when they've been detained for a different reason, then it's fine. But as of right nw, the bill doesn't guarantee this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Ideas

You know, for how much left winged people like to use "science" to justify everything, I'm surprised they don't get this.
Old 04-29-2010, 07:13 PM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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#148  

Mr. Greg
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Good! The open-for-interpretation phrase "lawful contact" will most likely be changed.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/ph...hejhnkiSQ.cspx

Quote:
Another change replaces the phrase "lawful contact" with "lawful stop, detention or arrest" to apparently clarify that officers don't need to question a victim or witness about their legal status.
If these changes get approved, I now have no problem with the bill.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:50 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
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topcat989
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwilliam54 View Post
its just another bit of racism bubbleing up from Americas asscrack.

While the vast majority of the country does not outright hate blacks or messicans. They do believe that they should know there place beneath the white mans feet.
The rising number of Hispanics and the election of Obama have brought this out in full force.
Because it a fear of losing dominance rather than just regular hate, most believe that they are not being racist, but in fact they still are.
We are nation of immigrants, we should welcome all just as we always have. They are the secret to our greatness after all.

what about the people who are just fine with LEGAL immigration but are opposed to massive unchecked ILLEGAL immigration? Are they "racist" too?

Oh and for your race baiting :





Old 04-29-2010, 10:05 PM topcat989 is offline  
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