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Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by topcat989 View Post
Everything I said is true. Notice I also used the qualifier :"Might be". I was not, and never said, "All, every single one, etc". I was simply pointing out that illegals are pretty easy to spot, at least where I live. Drive into a home depot, and see a group of hispanics, dressed in work clothes hanging out next to trees that have bikes chained to them. Yeah, every single one of them is a American citizen or legal immigrant. *wink*

How do you know which ones are illegal? We all know many of them are not, but you're using a stereotype that could be applied 1:1 to any poor Hispanic immigrant willing to work under the table, legal immigrant or not.
Old 05-20-2010, 05:00 PM Gibonius is offline  
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topcat989
 
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you form unshakable opinions built around easy stereotypes that demonstrate your prejudice towards others, mostly brown people.

sorry, but the stereotypes I mentioned are based in fact. At least here in california. If they don't apply elsewhere, well, then they don't. But they apply here. No amount of denial will change truth from being truth. Does every illegal that's hispanic "fit" the sterotypes I mentioned? No, of course not. But most do. If you go to a home depot parking lot here in california, and see a bunch of hispanics in work clothes hanging out in the parking lot, most times standing next to their bikes chained to trees, sorry, most of them are going to be illegal immigrants. It's reality, deal with it. To call acknowledging reality "bigotry" or "racism" is just fucking ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
Do you think before you post? You just said that there are many characteristics of an illegal, but ONE is definitely bein Hispanic.

That may have not been your intention, but that's exactly what you said.

I've stated in other posts that when I'm referring to illegals and hispanics that is because most of the illegals in the US are hispanic, and most of those are mexicans. There are of course illegals from other races/countries. But the majority are hispanics, and the majority of pro illegal immigrant groups are hispanic. I believe in applying immigration enforcement equally: if you're in the country illegally, no matter your race, you should be deported and made to stand in line instead of cutting in front of the immigrants who do it legally.


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Ignorance towards a race is bigot
Hatred towards a race is racist.

Fair enough. I am not racist since I don't hate any race. I hate ignorant fucktards, whatever their race may be. That includes those who throw the race card and cry racism whenever someone doesn't feel like showing their particular race special treatment, showing their incredible hypocrisy of calling for "equal treatment" but then crying racism when equal treatment is applied.

As far as "bigot" I don't claim to know all their is about any race, so I may be ignorant about race. I believe that race is genetic differences that account for different appearances , such as light skin or dark skin, and that such differences are mostly superficial- and that they do not include the intelligence. In other words, I don't believe any one race is "smarter" or dumber then any other race. We're all human with the same (overall) potential when born.

Now, culture, that's another matter. Sometimes people confuse criticism of a culture or certain values in a culture for racism or bigotry.

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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
How do you know which ones are illegal? We all know many of them are not, but you're using a stereotype that could be applied 1:1 to any poor Hispanic immigrant willing to work under the table, legal immigrant or not.

Are you fucking serious? A group of 30 hispanic males, dressed in work clothes, speaking spanish, in a home depot parking lot, next to 20 or so cheap bikes chained up to each other and trees/sign posts, and you say MOST are NOT illegal immigrants? If so then you are so fucking far out of whack with reality that debating with you is pointless.
Old 05-20-2010, 05:33 PM topcat989 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
How do you know which ones are illegal? We all know many of them are not, but you're using a stereotype that could be applied 1:1 to any poor Hispanic immigrant willing to work under the table, legal immigrant or not.

Even so, his opinion is not reflected in this law.

The meat of the law is very simply that it empowers police to run a check on peoples' immigration status when they are stopped for another infraction; and if their status is illegal they can be detained.
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:40 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Originally Posted by topcat989 View Post
Are you fucking serious? A group of 30 hispanic males, dressed in work clothes, speaking spanish, in a home depot parking lot, next to 20 or so cheap bikes chained up to each other and trees/sign posts, and you say MOST are NOT illegal immigrants? If so then you are so fucking far out of whack with reality that debating with you is pointless.

I meant many of them are not legal citizens.

I've worked on a landscape crew before, and until you actually get to know people, you have no idea which ones are legal and which ones are not. They're pretty much the same, except some have papers at home and some don't. Lots of them are illegals, sure, but there are a LOT of Spanish speaking, bike riding, work clothes wearing Hispanics in this country who are here 100% legally.
Old 05-20-2010, 07:23 PM Gibonius is offline  
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topcat989
 
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I meant many of them are not legal citizens.

I've worked on a landscape crew before, and until you actually get to know people, you have no idea which ones are legal and which ones are not. They're pretty much the same, except some have papers at home and some don't. Lots of them are illegals, sure, but there are a LOT of Spanish speaking, bike riding, work clothes wearing Hispanics in this country who are here 100% legally.

some, yes. a LOT?, umm, no. And there are differences, such as the ones who are here on a valid work visa or are a legal immigrant respected our country's laws and abided by them, rather then thinking they were above them.

Oh, by the way, I've worked on landscaping crews too. Don't know about where you did but here in california most of the hispanics in landscaping are either illegals, OR they are the children of illegals (anchor babies). Notice I said "most", not "all".

Just like most of the taxicab drivers are indian or middle eastern, or most of the owners of donut shops are vietnamese, or etc, etc
Old 05-20-2010, 07:56 PM topcat989 is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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Originally Posted by topcat989 View Post
sorry, but the stereotypes I mentioned are based in fact. At least here in california. If they don't apply elsewhere, well, then they don't. But they apply here. No amount of denial will change truth from being truth. Does every illegal that's hispanic "fit" the sterotypes I mentioned? No, of course not. But most do. If you go to a home depot parking lot here in california, and see a bunch of hispanics in work clothes hanging out in the parking lot, most times standing next to their bikes chained to trees, sorry, most of them are going to be illegal immigrants. It's reality, deal with it. To call acknowledging reality "bigotry" or "racism" is just fucking ignorant.



I've stated in other posts that when I'm referring to illegals and hispanics that is because most of the illegals in the US are hispanic, and most of those are mexicans. There are of course illegals from other races/countries. But the majority are hispanics, and the majority of pro illegal immigrant groups are hispanic. I believe in applying immigration enforcement equally: if you're in the country illegally, no matter your race, you should be deported and made to stand in line instead of cutting in front of the immigrants who do it legally.




Fair enough. I am not racist since I don't hate any race. I hate ignorant fucktards, whatever their race may be. That includes those who throw the race card and cry racism whenever someone doesn't feel like showing their particular race special treatment, showing their incredible hypocrisy of calling for "equal treatment" but then crying racism when equal treatment is applied.

As far as "bigot" I don't claim to know all their is about any race, so I may be ignorant about race. I believe that race is genetic differences that account for different appearances , such as light skin or dark skin, and that such differences are mostly superficial- and that they do not include the intelligence. In other words, I don't believe any one race is "smarter" or dumber then any other race. We're all human with the same (overall) potential when born.

Now, culture, that's another matter. Sometimes people confuse criticism of a culture or certain values in a culture for racism or bigotry.



Are you fucking serious? A group of 30 hispanic males, dressed in work clothes, speaking spanish, in a home depot parking lot, next to 20 or so cheap bikes chained up to each other and trees/sign posts, and you say MOST are NOT illegal immigrants? If so then you are so fucking far out of whack with reality that debating with you is pointless.
would you rather have them at home collecting welfare and sitting on their fat asses?

Theyre at least trying to earn a living and support their families, rather than being all kahnza'esque.
Old 05-20-2010, 07:59 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I meant many of them are not legal citizens.

I've worked on a landscape crew before, and until you actually get to know people, you have no idea which ones are legal and which ones are not. They're pretty much the same, except some have papers at home and some don't. Lots of them are illegals, sure, but there are a LOT of Spanish speaking, bike riding, work clothes wearing Hispanics in this country who are here 100% legally.
So...someone with no money, no education, no working knowledge of the english language, and no plan to support themselves beyond occasional day labor can successfully pass through the legal immigration process for the U.S.? Not saying it isn't possible, just that I'm not really familiar with the entire process and what is required. You do realize that many who claim to be "legal" (yet fit the same profile as an illegal) are only legal in the sense that they are using a dead persons SSN or maybe one from a child with the same name. I had to fire a lady one time when we found out that she was using the name/SSN of her 8 yo daughter...and she didn't really seem like an illegal.
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Old 05-20-2010, 07:59 PM joemama is offline  
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Mr. Marbles
 
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Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
would you rather have them at home collecting welfare and sitting on their fat asses?

Theyre at least trying to earn a living and support their families, rather than being all kahnza'esque.

I think illegal immigrants would have a hard time getting on welfare
Old 05-20-2010, 08:33 PM Mr. Marbles is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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I think illegal immigrants would have a hard time getting on welfare
unfortunately not :/
Old 05-20-2010, 08:36 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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topcat989
 
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Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
would you rather have them at home collecting welfare and sitting on their fat asses?

I would rather they go back to their own countries and either work on fixing the problems there that made them want to leave, OR apply and follow through with the legal process to become a legal citizen if they want that- that means learning the language and respecting the culture here rather then demanding we change for them. No pressing #1 for english, no voter manuals in anything but english, because if someone is voting then they should damn well be proficient at it(english). They can keep their culture, and celebrate it; that's part of what true diversity is about and what makes America great, but they should see themselves and be an AMERICAN before whatever they were before. That's what immigrants used to do: love this country, respect it, and ASSIMILATED into it.

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Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
Theyre at least trying to earn a living and support their families, rather than being all kahnza'esque.

and I respect them for that- a lot more then some fat ass lazy american who won't work.

But that still doesn't mean the law shouldn't apply to them or that they don't have a negative effect on american citizens who want to do the same thing: provide for their families.

There has to be a line somewhere. We can't fit all of mexico up here. What about africa? Is it fair to them that because there is an ocean in the way they can't be here in equal numbers as the hispanic illegals? How much should american citizens give, especially when it's not their individual choice? Say someone comes to your house and says you should open up your home to those less fortunate, that you should provide food and free schooling to them? At what point is it not "evil" or "racist" to say "no more, I can't take any more, in fact, there are too many, some have to go".

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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
So...someone with no money, no education, no working knowledge of the english language, and no plan to support themselves beyond occasional day labor can successfully pass through the legal immigration process for the U.S.? Not saying it isn't possible, just that I'm not really familiar with the entire process and what is required. You do realize that many who claim to be "legal" (yet fit the same profile as an illegal) are only legal in the sense that they are using a dead persons SSN or maybe one from a child with the same name. I had to fire a lady one time when we found out that she was using the name/SSN of her 8 yo daughter...and she didn't really seem like an illegal.

I've worked on landscaping crews as well. Here in califonia, most of them are hispanic. Most of them are illegals, and of the ones left that are legal, well many of those are legal because they are anchor babies. There are those that are legal citizens and have been for generations, but you rarely find them behind the leaf blowers. Owning the business, though, yeah.
Old 05-20-2010, 08:47 PM topcat989 is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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some, yes. a LOT?, umm, no. And there are differences, such as the ones who are here on a valid work visa or are a legal immigrant respected our country's laws and abided by them, rather then thinking they were above them.
And you can't tell which ones respected that particular law from their clothes, language, or transportation. You basically just said "The illegals are the ones who didn't come here legally." Well, uh, duh.

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Oh, by the way, I've worked on landscaping crews too. Don't know about where you did but here in california most of the hispanics in landscaping are either illegals, OR they are the children of illegals (anchor babies). Notice I said "most", not "all".
The children of illegals are still citizens, just as much as you or I.

Point is you're painting with a *very* wide brush here.
Old 05-20-2010, 09:16 PM Gibonius is offline  
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pepperochini
 
I find it amusing that the mexican president had the cojones to come to the US, and criticize our policy to our president on our turf. On top of that, Mexico's immigration laws are wayyyy stricter than the Arizona situation. I have no sympathy. Fuck em.
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Old 05-20-2010, 09:24 PM pepperochini is offline  
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topcat989
 
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
And you can't tell which ones respected that particular law from their clothes, language, or transportation. You basically just said "The illegals are the ones who didn't come here legally." Well, uh, duh.



The children of illegals are still citizens, just as much as you or I.

Point is you're painting with a *very* wide brush here.

point is you and all the other pro illegals folks want the brush to taken away and burned, so that no enforcement of our immigration laws are possible.
Old 05-20-2010, 09:25 PM topcat989 is offline  
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topcat989
 
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I find it amusing that the mexican president had the cojones to come to the US, and criticize our policy to our president on our turf. On top of that, Mexico's immigration laws are wayyyy stricter than the Arizona situation. I have no sympathy. Fuck em.

not only that, look at how many traitors stood and applauded him for it.............including that worthless OMGOMGOMGOMG sitting behind him.........

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Old 05-20-2010, 09:27 PM topcat989 is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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point is you and all the other pro illegals folks want the brush to taken away and burned, so that no enforcement of our immigration laws are possible.

Yeah that's actually not true at all in my case. We need a significant revamp of our immigration policy, just don't want a witch hunt against Hispanics in this country and I recognize the significant amount of racism against them that exists these days.
Old 05-20-2010, 10:02 PM Gibonius is offline  
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