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Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermo1223 View Post
Considering this is the melting pot of the world and AZ has a big spanish population. They are not stopping them because they look like they are not from AZ. They are stopping them because they do and are acting in a way concurrent with known illegal activities.

All we can do until the law is officially put in place is speculate. As long as they are acting like they are doing illegal activities, then I'll have no issue with it. As long as they do this to other people who aren't Hispanic, then I'll have no issue with it. But for right now, with what I know about people as a whole, I see this targetted towards Hispanics only.

But the moment a person gets stopped just because he was walking (meaning not looking for day jobs or any of the other things mentioned earlier) is the moment a race riot will occur.
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:46 PM Coqui is offline  
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Thermo1223
 
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All we can do until the law is officially put in place is speculate. As long as they are acting like they are doing illegal activities, then I'll have no issue with it. As long as they do this to other people who aren't Hispanic, then I'll have no issue with it. But for right now, with what I know about people as a whole, I see this targetted towards Hispanics only.

But the moment a person gets stopped just because he was walking (meaning not looking for day jobs or any of the other things mentioned earlier) is the moment a race riot will occur.

That is a local level issue...if the LEO chooses to be an ass he should quite literally get his ass handed to him that I agree on but rioting will only prove people in groups are idiots.
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:49 PM Thermo1223 is offline  
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Coqui
 
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That is a local level issue...if the LEO chooses to be an ass he should quite literally get his ass handed to him that I agree on but rioting will only prove people in groups are idiots.

We knew the latter long before this
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:52 PM Coqui is offline  
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And if you're in a rush, you would have no issue with a cop stopping you for no reason other than to check your ID, then taking your ID and running a check to make sure it's legit? We're talking about 5 minutes wasted here.
I would have a problem with that. Leave me the fuck alone if I'm not doing anything illegal.
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:54 PM Rizen is offline  
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Considering this is the melting pot of the world and AZ has a big spanish population. They are not stopping them because they look like they are not from AZ. They are stopping them because they do and are acting in a way concurrent with known illegal activities.

Exactly what behaviors does an illegal engage in that a legal immigrant wouldn't?


We've already seen one idiot in this thread saying speaking Spanish but not English is a sign of an illegal. Stopping everyone who speaks Spanish in public would be a civil rights disaster.
Old 04-28-2010, 03:27 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Exactly what behaviors does an illegal engage in that a legal immigrant wouldn't?


We've already seen one idiot in this thread saying speaking Spanish but not English is a sign of an illegal. Stopping everyone who speaks Spanish in public would be a civil rights disaster.

That's one of the most interesting things in this thread. Most people who are always talking shit about the gubmint and have some freedom fries and liberty toast for breakfast seem to have no qualms whatsoever in the gubmint badgering people for doing nothing illegal (as long as they're not being harassed).
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:29 PM Straw Man is offline  
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I would have a problem with that. Leave me the fuck alone if I'm not doing anything illegal.

Not having to carry ID with us has been a bragging point for US civil liberties for a long time, it contrasted us with Communist regimes where you needed ID to exist.

Guess some people are forgetting about that.
Old 04-28-2010, 03:31 PM Gibonius is offline  
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It simply blows my mind how much civil liberties people are willing to give up for a silly goose chase on "terrorists" and because of illegals. If you don't want the illegals here, employ more border patrol, build walls, etc. And start actively kicking people out. This law won't actually do much of anything.
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:53 PM Rizen is offline  
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A county in Virginia already tried this a while back and it pretty much bankrupted the entire county. Most small businesses operate with a 5% or less profit margin. When 10-15% of the residents of a community leave those businesses are fucked. When the people go and the businesses go, then the property value goes and so does the tax base.

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I'm guessing a statewide implementation will likely have many of the same results plus cost even more money due to enforcement costs and fighting lawsuits generated by the enforcement of the law. Congratulations AZ, you likely just fucked yourself in the ass. Hopefully the supreme court will save you from your own stupidity, but not too quickly. You should feel some of the pain of your stupidity first.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:11 PM pyramid is offline  
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detail
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The issue though, is that this bill will be solely directed to Hispanics. It doesn't matter if it's the majority or not. To single out a specific group is racial profiling.

As an Arizonan, it won't. It will target illegals, not my fault that they tend to be Mexican. If this law was in Connecticut it would mostly focus on Portuguese.

About the only good thing I can say, is that my brother's in-laws who are free-loading illegals (foodstamps and cash assistance) are going back to Mexico. Less family drama that way.

Sad part is, an engineering student is here illegally and is going to be screwed at the end of this. I wish we would be more willing to import the smart ones and let the POS stay home.

Finally, this is nothing compared to the abusive immigration laws that Mexico has:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14632
http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/eng/faqs.html
Old 04-28-2010, 04:33 PM detail is offline  
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detail
Impeach and try Bush/Cheney! 911 was an inside job!
 
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It simply blows my mind how much civil liberties people are willing to give up for a silly goose chase on "terrorists" and because of illegals. If you don't want the illegals here, employ more border patrol, build walls, etc. And start actively kicking people out. This law won't actually do much of anything.

We aren't giving up any liberties with the law. It is just the State requiring that state officials enforce the federal laws.

I agree though, we need to secure the border so we can have less laws.
Old 04-28-2010, 04:36 PM detail is offline  
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That's one of the most interesting things in this thread. Most people who are always talking shit about the gubmint and have some freedom fries and liberty toast for breakfast seem to have no qualms whatsoever in the gubmint badgering people for doing nothing illegal (as long as they're not white).

*fixt
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:59 PM wwilliam54 is offline  
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*fixt


True
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:21 PM Straw Man is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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The only problem I can see with Arizona's legislation is that it had to be enacted because the federal government appears to be completely disinterested with actually enforcing the law. The Arizona legislation is drafted to mirror the federal legislation, only it gives state and local police the powers to enforce it as well. People seem to be upset as if this is some kind of brand new Draconian law that only now came into existence in the land of the free. It already exists people!

With regard to people suggesting the cops will generate "lawful contact" because they're secretly run by the KKK and want all the Messicans to leave, that's really going completely overboard with paranoia in my view. They still have checks and balances with which they can operate. For example, if they pull you over for speeding and you produce a license, the officer will never get away with saying he had any reasonable suspicion to call you on that. If you can't produce that, he will. If you can't produce ID and you look like you just came from Mexico, AND you were stopped by the police, than yes, they have reasonable suspicion. What they can't do is randomly stop Jose walking down the street to buy groceries.

Will this target Mexicans primarily? Well DUH! Arizona doesn't have a problem with illegal immigrants coming off of boats from China. Arizona doesn't have a problem with illegal immigration originating from the Middle East. Arizona's illegal immigration issues stem primarily from Mexico, so obviously that will draw most of the attention.

My next question is why are people so up in arms about Arizona MIRRORING THE FEDERAL ENFORCEMENT LEGISLATION? If ICE did it's fucking job, this law would never be drafted.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:02 AM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Exactly what behaviors does an illegal engage in that a legal immigrant wouldn't?

ID theft for the purposes of obtaining fake work documentation since you havn't been issued your own SSN.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:08 AM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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